Was Vegeta bluffing about destroying the Earth?

[GreatSaiyaman123]

Vegeta had simply lost his shit and was goading Goku into taking the blast. Even if he could blow up the planet, I’m not sure if he was being entirely honest. Earth’s Genki/energy being capable of killing even Oozaru Vegeta doesn’t help Vegeta’s point either.

 

[Boo Brand Milk]

I think Vegeta could have done it easily considering he one shotted Arlia.

 

[Warmmedown]

Earth's genki is so big because of all its living organisms and not because of the planet itself, so that shouldn't mean he can't destroy Earth. Plus Roshi and Piccolo destroyed the moon from afar (which is a quarter of Earth's size and ) and Vegeta was like 50x more powerful than them. He wouldn't immediately destroy it because he'd suffocate, but he'd turn it into a time bomb.

 

[SSJ2]

Did he really have the appearance of someone who was bluffing? Lmfao

 

[Captain Cadaver]

Not only is there no reason to believe someone acting completely irrational and screaming as loud as he can was bluffing, but BoZ Piccolo having already destroyed a moon portrayed as significantly larger than our own to the extent it was at least a Small Planet level feat makes it unlikely Planet busting is beyond Vegeta's level, particularly with reveals from later material (eg. the Galactic Patrol that have an Earth-destroying nuke having been afraid of one Saiyan). The Genki Dama argument isn't a good one since, as already stated, it draws from the genki of all living organisms on Earth and not just the planet itself.

He wouldn't immediately destroy it because he'd suffocate, but he'd turn it into a time bomb.

That'd be assuming he was thinking reasonably about the repercussions, which given his anger at the time, seems very questionable.

 

[SSJ2]

Goku also seemed confident that his attack would destroy the earth. Kaio already made it clear that a Genki Dama could destroy the planet if not careful. Vegeta's full power blast with the intention of destroying the planet would certainly do so.

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

Goku also seemed confident that his attack would destroy the earth. Kaio already made it clear that a Genki Dama could destroy the planet if not careful. Vegeta's full power blast with the intention of destroying the planet would certainly do so.

The Genki-Dama >>>>>> Vegeta though

Did he really have the appearance of someone who was bluffing? Lmfao

Not only is there no reason to believe someone acting completely irrational and screaming as loud as he can was bluffing

If we bringing up Vegeta’s irrationally then why take him seriously at all?

but BoZ Piccolo having already destroyed a moon portrayed as significantly larger than our own to the extent it was at least a Small Planet level feat makes it unlikely Planet busting is beyond Vegeta's level, particularly with reveals from later material (eg. the Galactic Patrol that have an Earth-destroying nuke having been afraid of one Saiyan). The Genki Dama argument isn't a good one since, as already stated, it draws from the genki of all living organisms on Earth and not just the planet itself.

What makes you think the moon in DBZ is different from the real life moon?

 

[SSJ2]

The Genki-Dama >>>>>> Vegeta though

Not necessarily. Given how weakened Vegeta was post Oozaru, the Genki Dama wouldn't have needed to be that impressive to beat him. It's plausible that it was =<2x of Vegeta's Gyarikku Ho. Really doubt it'd enough to be the difference of busting a planet and not.

 

[ahill1]

Oozaru Vegeta should be > Gyarikku Ho tho. Goku stated not even a Kaioken x5 would leave him in a position to stand up to Oozaru Vegeta. Gohan and Kuririn also noticed a ominous chi just appeared when he sensed Oozaru Vegeta and that aggravated Gohan's need to help his father, so it'd seem strange if the chi he felt didn't surpass what Vegeta showed before.

I believe Vegeta could destroy the Earth though. This is also supported by the Guidebooks repeating Vegeta's statement of him being capable of doing so. How Vegeta was expecting to get away from that, I don't know. Maybe it wouldn't explode instantly, dunno.

 

[SSJ2]

I'm not saying that at all. I'm saying that Oozaru Vegeta isn't suggested to be astronomically above that level given how weak he was shown to be after regressing. Realistically he can be 40-60k and the Genki Dama doesn't need to be far above that. I really can't see that being the difference of destroying a planet or not. Goku knows what kind of power can destroy a planet, and he was confident that he had to stop Vegeta's blast to prevent it.

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

Also worth pointing out most Saiyans can’t control their Oozaru forms (Vegeta is the only confirmed case of retaining one’s mind) and never worried about accidentally destroying the planet. So at least we know a 12k like Raditz can’t destroy Earth, and at worst neither can a 40-80k like Nappa.

 

[SSJ2]

That sounds like headcanon. Show me where that's ever stated in the manga.

 

[ahill1]

I'm not saying that at all. I'm saying that Oozaru Vegeta isn't suggested to be astronomically above that level given how weak he was shown to be after regressing. Realistically he can be 40-60k and the Genki Dama doesn't need to be far above that. I really can't see that being the difference of destroying a planet or not. Goku knows what kind of power can destroy a planet, and he was confident that he had to stop Vegeta's blast to prevent it.

GD is >>> Gyarikku Ho. I believe Vegeta can destroy the planet, but the GD being able to do so isn't proof of anything.

 

[ahill1]

Also worth pointing out most Saiyans can’t control their Oozaru forms (Vegeta is the only confirmed case of retaining one’s mind) and never worried about accidentally destroying the planet. So at least we know a 12k like Raditz can’t destroy Earth, and at worst neither can a 40-80k like Nappa.

Kuririn stated Gohan and Goku merely showcase their Saiyajin's side when turning into an Oozaru, hence why they lose consciousness. Nappa and Raditz presumably wouldn't.

 

[SSJ2]

GD is >>> Gyarikku Ho. I believe Vegeta can destroy the planet, but the GD being able to do so isn't proof of anything.

I'm not saying it is man. I'm saying that Goku is aware of what's necessary to destroy a planet because of the Genki Dama. And as I said, Goku's reaction to the Gyarikku Ho showed that he was fully confident that the attack would destroy the planet. He knows what it takes and thought the Gyarikku Ho would do it.

 

[ahill1]

I'm not saying it is man. I'm saying that Goku is aware of what's necessary to destroy a planet because of the Genki Dama. And as I said, Goku's reaction to the Gyarikku Ho showed that he was fully confident that the attack would destroy the planet. He knows what it takes and thought the Gyarikku Ho would do it.

You also said the GD isn't necessarily >>> Gyarikku Ho and I was addressing that.

 

[SSJ2]

You also said the GD isn't necessarily >>> Gyarikku Ho and I was addressing that.

The fact of the matter is that Vegeta was weak enough to fight with Gohan (likely enraged power) for an extended period of time. He doesn't need to be above 40k as an Oozaru for this to make sense. Your point about Kaioken x5 doesn't contradict this either. Kaio states that Goku had no strength left after the Kaioken x4, so he was certainly far from his best when speculating about x5.

Can easily look like this:

Goku: 8,000
Kaioken x3: 24,000
KKx3+KHH: 24,000+
Exhausted: 4,000
Hypothetical KKx5: 20,000

Vegeta: 18,000+
Gyarikku Ho: 24,000+
Oozaru Vegeta: 40,000
Genki Dama: 50,000

So I'm not sure what you're arguing here. I said from the beginning that the Genki Dama could plausibly be =<2x the Gyarikku Ho, and it definitely can be depending on if you believe Goku's Kaioken KHH was amplified.

For example:

Kaioken x3 KHH: 27,000
Gyarikku Ho: 27,000
Oozaru Vegeta: 40,000
Genki Dama: 50,000

Where's the problem?

 

[Symbiote]

I think me meant that the GD didn’t have to be stronger to beat the worn out Vegeta after returning to his base form.

 

[ahill1]

The fact of the matter is that Vegeta was weak enough to fight with Gohan (likely enraged power) for an extended period of time. He doesn't need to be above 40k as an Oozaru for this to make sense. Your point about Kaioken x5 doesn't contradict this either. Kaio states that Goku had no strength left after the Kaioken x4, so he was certainly far from his best when speculating about x5.

Can easily look like this:

Goku: 8,000
Kaioken x3: 24,000
KKx3+KHH: 24,000+
Exhausted: 4,000
Hypothetical KKx5: 20,000

Vegeta: 18,000+
Gyarikku Ho: 24,000+
Oozaru Vegeta: 40,000
Genki Dama: 50,000

So I'm not sure what you're arguing here. I said from the beginning that the Genki Dama could plausibly be =<2x the Gyarikku Ho, and it definitely can be depending on if you believe Goku's Kaioken KHH was amplified.

For example:

Kaioken x3 KHH: 27,000
Gyarikku Ho: 27,000
Oozaru Vegeta: 40,000
Genki Dama: 50,000

Where's the problem?

I'm merely pointing out that Oozaru Vegeta is considerably above everything that came before. Goku stated that his Kaioken x5 couldn't do anything against him, and while he was weakened, it's not like he stated the outcome would be different if he were in top form, which he likely would. He also stated Vegeta far surpassed him, which likely accounts his Oozaru form. And again, Gohan only grew conflicted enough to help his father once he sensed Oozaru. Nothing that came before this urged in him this need. So if the Genki-Dama is enough to off Vegeta, while (this is important) Goku saw how his Kaioken x4 KMHMH couldn't deal the finish blow, then it's a heck of a powerful attack, way more powerful than Vegeta's Gyarikku Ho. Gohan could keep up fairly well with Vegeta when he turned back, but reverting back from Oozaru could have taken more of a tool of Vegeta's power, as we generally see kid Goku is unconscious for a while when he turns back from Oozaru.

Vegeta (post fake Moon) -- 5,000
Oozaru -- 50,000
GD -- 100,000

So yeah, the GD is on another level.

 

[SSJ2]

I just don't see anything being contradicted by what you've said, though I agree that 50k for the Genki Dama is an extreme lowball. Even if Goku was at full power, a burst of Kaioken x5 would only be as strong as Oozaru Vegeta, and clearly that wouldn't be enough to beat him with 1 burst. And yes, Vegeta did far surpass Goku. Goku's maximum power was a burst of 32,000 that nearly killed him to produce. Vegeta was able to put out power far beyond that even after intentionally weakening himself. Vegeta also told Goku that Oozaru = 10x, so Goku knows that Vegeta's hypothetical maximum was 180,000. That is the definition of being far surpassed.

I don't see why the point about Gohan changes anything. A consistent 40,000 battle power would be far beyond anything Gohan had sensed at that point. Until that point Vegeta's best showing was the Gyarikku Ho which I've acknowledged is substantially below Oozaru, and that was only for a short period of time.

I also think that regressing from Oozaru causes a loss of ki, but the strength statements don't make any mention of that. We only know that the power ball dramatically lowered his ki.

I can see the Genki Dama being 60-80,000 without any problem.