What are your Multipliers of the different forms of SSJ in DBS?

[GSM123]

I actually like that idea and would make Trunks going from Dabura tier to SSJ3 Goku level make a lot more sense.

Also this way we can use the 50 times multiplier for Black's Super Saiyan which will make this chain make a lot more sense:

SSJ2 Vegeta >> SSJ Black (Pre Zenkai) >>>>>>>>>>>> Base Black >>> SSJ3 Goku = SSJ2 Trunks

Exactly. There’s two problems with this though:

1) RoF. But because the manga ignores RoF, and even the anime flip flops on it, I think it’s fair to assume the writers never thought about it and Base Goku vs Freeza was retconned. Still, Freeza being “only” SSJ1-2 level without Golden form makes it even weirder that Gotenks wasn’t allowed to fight.

2) When does his scream, the Kaioshins are so stunned they pass out, whil Base Goku is “just” paralyzed.

Other than that though, I think Toyotaro is rather conservative about the power gains.


@SIAD what are your multipliers for Ultra Instinct?

 

[Animelover5487]

2) When does his scream, the Kaioshins are so stunned they pass out, whil Base Goku is “just” paralyzed.

Boo arc Base Goku was already stronger than the Kaioshin.

 

[SIAD]

Exactly. There’s two problems with this though:

1) RoF. But because the manga ignores RoF, and even the anime flip flops on it, I think it’s fair to assume the writers never thought about it and Base Goku vs Freeza was retconned. Still, Freeza being “only” SSJ1-2 level without Golden form makes it even weirder that Gotenks wasn’t allowed to fight.

2) When does his scream, the Kaioshins are so stunned they pass out, whil Base Goku is “just” paralyzed.

Other than that though, I think Toyotaro is rather conservative about the power gains.


@SIAD what are your multipliers for Ultra Instinct?

I don't have a Multiplier for Ultra Instinct and Mega Instinct forms, as I think they vary a lot.

What if I think maybe there could be a Multiplier between the UI over the Sign UI (will it be 5x?).

 

[GSM123]

I don't have a Multiplier for Ultra Instinct and Mega Instinct forms, as I think they vary a lot.

What if I think maybe there could be a Multiplier between the UI over the Sign UI (will it be 5x?).

UI Goku is more or less as strong as LSSJ Broly, so UI over SSJB is at least the same as SSJG over Base, since Gogeta skipped SSJG and went straight to SSJB.

If fusion doesn’t give smaller SSJ boosts, then UI could be quite strong.

 

[SIAD]

UI Goku is more or less as strong as LSSJ Broly, so UI over SSJB is at least the same as SSJG over Base, since Gogeta skipped SSJG and went straight to SSJB.

If fusion doesn’t give smaller SSJ boosts, then UI could be quite strong.

Could you show it with numbers?

By the way, I realized that I have a hard time having PSSJB = 50x SSJG. I read Chapter 22 of the DBS Manga again and Vegeta SSJG dodges all of Goku Black SSJR's blows and with SSJB he hits him, but it's not a very big beating.

 

[GSM123]

Could you show it with numbers?

If the multiplier never changes in the manga, this is how it works:

SSJ: 50x
SSJ2: 100x
SSJ3: 400x
SSJG: 1,000,000x
SSJB: 5,000,000x
PSSJB: 50,000,000x

And if Gogeta has the same multipliers instead of smaller ones, he'd be this:

Gogeta: 50,000,000
~ SSJ: 2,500,000,000
~ SSJ2: 5,000,000,000
~ SSJ3: 20,000,000,000
~ SSJG: 50,000,000,000,000
~ PSSJB: 2,500,000,000,000,000

Broly is at least as strong as SSJG Gogeta since Gogeta went from SSJ1 to SSJB, and UI Goku is at best as strong as Gogeta. To make it simple, I'll make them equals.

LSSJ Broly (Peak) = UI Goku = 50,000,000,000,000

Meaning, UI would be 1,000,000x PSSJB. This is too much.

I think this would be more fitting for Gogeta:

SSJ: 2.5x
SSJ2: 3.125x
SSJ3: 6.25x
SSJG: 12.5x
SSJB: 25x
PSSJB: 31.25x

 

[SIAD]

If the multiplier never changes in the manga, this is how it works:

SSJ: 50x
SSJ2: 100x
SSJ3: 400x
SSJG: 1,000,000x
SSJB: 5,000,000x
PSSJB: 50,000,000x

And if Gogeta has the same multipliers instead of smaller ones, he'd be this:

Gogeta: 50,000,000
~ SSJ: 2,500,000,000
~ SSJ2: 5,000,000,000
~ SSJ3: 20,000,000,000
~ SSJG: 50,000,000,000,000
~ PSSJB: 2,500,000,000,000,000

Broly is at least as strong as SSJG Gogeta since Gogeta went from SSJ1 to SSJB, and UI Goku is at best as strong as Gogeta. To make it simple, I'll make them equals.

LSSJ Broly (Peak) = UI Goku = 50,000,000,000,000

Meaning, UI would be 1,000,000x PSSJB. This is too much.

I think this would be more fitting for Gogeta:

SSJ: 2.5x
SSJ2: 3.125x
SSJ3: 6.25x
SSJG: 12.5x
SSJB: 25x
PSSJB: 31.25x

By the way, I realized that I have a hard time having PSSJB = 50x SSJG. I read Chapter 22 of the DBS Manga again and Vegeta SSJG dodges all of Goku Black SSJR's blows and with SSJB he hits him, but it's not a very big beating.

 

[GSM123]

By the way, I realized that I have a hard time having PSSJB = 50x SSJG. I read Chapter 22 of the DBS Manga again and Vegeta SSJG dodges all of Goku Black SSJR's blows and with SSJB he hits him, but it's not a very big beating.

But Vegeta's power was never close to PSSJB when he was fighting Goku Black. He tried attacking Merged Zamasu in Chapter 23 and failed.

PSSJB > SSJB Bursts > SSJR Goku Black > Imperfect SSJB.

I think Goku Black was weakened by SSJB Vegeta's attacks. SSJG Vegeta was dodging very easily, as if he were actually faster than Black, even though SSJR > SSJG. Goku also suggested Vegeta was toying with Goku Black and told him to finish the fight before they fused.

 

[SIAD]

But Vegeta's power was never close to PSSJB when he was fighting Goku Black. He tried attacking Merged Zamasu in Chapter 23 and failed.

PSSJB > SSJB Bursts > SSJR Goku Black > Imperfect SSJB.

I think Goku Black was weakened by SSJB Vegeta's attacks. SSJG Vegeta was dodging very easily, as if he were actually faster than Black, even though SSJR > SSJG. Goku also suggested Vegeta was toying with Goku Black and told him to finish the fight before they fused.

I understand, anyway, the gap between the PSSJB and the SSJB should be like 25x.

 

[GSM123]

I understand, anyway, the gap between the PSSJB and the SSJB should be like 25x.

Hm... Maybe. What about:

SSJG: 1
SSJB: 2.5
SSJB (Bursts): 5?
PSSJB: 50

I think PSSJB = 50x SSJG makes a lot of sense, not only because it should be the same as SSJ1, but also because it gives a lot of room for Merged Zamasu >>> SSJR Goku Black.

 

[SIAD]

Hm... Maybe. What about:

SSJG: 1
SSJB: 2.5
SSJB (Bursts): 5?
PSSJB: 50

I think PSSJB = 50x SSJG makes a lot of sense, not only because it should be the same as SSJ1, but also because it gives a lot of room for Merged Zamasu >>> SSJR Goku Black.

The only thing that doesn't add up to those numbers is Vegeta SSJG dodging Goku Black SSJR.

I would have this:

SSJG: 1
SSJB: 2.5 - Decreasing
SSJB (Bursts): 2.5
PSSJB: 50

I think Vegeta and Goku got stronger in their respective training, I think their SSJG forms surpass their old SSJB forms.

 

[GSM123]

The only thing that doesn't add up to those numbers is Vegeta SSJG dodging Goku Black SSJR.

I would have this:

SSJG: 1
SSJB: 2.5 - Decreasing
SSJB (Bursts): 2.5
PSSJB: 50

I think Vegeta and Goku got stronger in their respective training, I think their SSJG forms surpass their old SSJB forms.

I don't really mind. Either way SSJG Vegeta is still not stronger than SSJR Goku Black, otherwise Vegeta wouldn't have needed SSJB.

I'm not sure about Goku and Vegeta gaining power. Vegeta specifically trained to master the bursts and Goku ony trained the Mafuba. The manga is very conservative so I don't think the Mafuba would earn Goku any power.

 

[SIAD]

I don't really mind. Either way SSJG Vegeta is still not stronger than SSJR Goku Black, otherwise Vegeta wouldn't have needed SSJB.

I'm not sure about Goku and Vegeta gaining power. Vegeta specifically trained to master the bursts and Goku ony trained the Mafuba. The manga is very conservative so I don't think the Mafuba would earn Goku any power.

What multiplier do you give to the forms of SSJ and SSJR to Goku Black?

 

[GSM123]

What multiplier do you give to the forms of SSJ and SSJR to Goku Black?

I’m not sure about SSJ, but SSJR is very small. Like 1.5x.