What power did Goku expect from Gohan against Cell?

[Warmmedown]

He wasn't worried about Cell at Korin's because of Gohan. He even gave Cell a senzu after wearing him down a bit.

Did he know ssj2 existed? And if yes, did he expect Gohan to access it? Even though he and Vegeta both were unable to find it and were much more experienced with ki and ssj than Gohan? Or did he just think the upper bounds of Gohan's angered SSJ1 could beat Cell?

 

[ahill1]

He expected Gohan to tap into SSJ2 vs Cell, most likely. That's likely the discovery he made in the RoSaT which he spoke to Korin. As for which level he expected from Cell, maybe FP Cell surpassed his estimations somewhat as he seemed a little uneasy when feeling it, but not by much. It was still within the realm he knew Gohan could kick his ass. Also, he noticed Cell's tougher than he expected in their warm up, saying he could get hurt real quick (or something like this) if he dropped his guard for a second, so it seems Cell was also a better fighter than he thought, but that's about it, I guess. He already expected Cell to be above him as he confirmed with Korin and I also think since then he knew it wasn't simply 1 or 2 steps, but a considerable margin. However, it's possible that at Korin's tower he wasn't necessarily counting with Gohan getting enraged and the discovery revolved around his overall MSSJ power, with the SSJ2 as a just in case weapon, in this case with the Cell who fought him being his estimations for a FP Cell... ~shrugs~

 

[SSJ2]

He expected Gohan to tap into SSJ2 vs Cell, most likely.

I'm not sure he fully expected that. Goku said that Gohan's dormant power began to release in the RoSaT. Whatever he saw still gave him the confidence to use his plan though, so it's hard to say exactly how much he saw. We saw the emotional state that was needed to force Gohan to transform, I'm not sure what in the RoSaT could have elicited anywhere close to the same response in Gohan.

I think it was a mixture of seeing Gohan's potential, how quickly he overtook even Goku, and remember past events of Gohan's rage.

 

[ahill1]

I'm not sure he fully expected that. Goku said that Gohan's dormant power began to release in the RoSaT. Whatever he saw still gave him the confidence to use his plan though, so it's hard to say exactly how much he saw. We saw the emotional state that was needed to force Gohan to transform, I'm not sure what in the RoSaT could have elicited anywhere close to the same response in Gohan.

I think it was a mixture of seeing Gohan's potential, how quickly he overtook even Goku, and remember past events of Gohan's rage.

Yeah I also at the end said I wasn't sure myself.

But what Goku said was based off what he saw in the RoSaT. He stated Gohan started to show his tremendous power in the RoSaT, and that he needs to be pushed to get that power out again. I've the impression that's Goku's main discovery. Idk what may have elicited such response from Gohan... Maybe the reality he was in, harsh training, heavy responsibilities, knowing the fucked up situation, which kept happening to him ever since he was 4 years old with evil enemies targeting them suddenly got that emotion out. I think the fact Gohan was a little clueless may also slightly imply it was an event he, Gohan, wasn't so aware of, maybe due to the emotional stress of releasing all that anger. Well, granted that Gohan didn't think anything about himself and always thought the discovery was related to his father's powers, but I think the great one and that made Goku so relaxed was the ultimate power of Gohan's angry that were Cell to be even stronger than expected, he still could keep relaxed as that power couldn't be matched.

 

[Spiral-Force]

Prior to the CG era, Gohan's power spikes from rage offered some resistance to the enemy briefly and he got props from his teammates, but it was hardly backed as a central strategy. It seems Goku was banking on power that could be recreated - like a tangible change.

 

[Power Level Guy]

Goku isn't necessarily thinking of a set multiplier, he just knows that a fully trained Gohan, brought to his max, unleashing all of his rage, should be an unstoppable power. He was right.

When Gohan is trained and enraged, there's not one power in the entire universe that can beat him.

 

[DBZAOTA482]

Goku was mainly banking on Gohan's rage boosts to save the day. Nobody expected Gohan to achieve SSJ2 at that moment.

 

[Dagon]

Rightful-minded angry SSJ Gohan should surpass Cell. SSJ2 was a bonus.

 

[Hector]

I think the anime filler with Goku knowing about Gohan's SSJ2 beforehand makes more sense.

 

[Warmmedown]

Surely it makes no sense for angered SSJ1 Gohan to beat Cell? He'd have to be more than 2x as strong as SSJ Goku. Is SSJ2 Gohan considered to over 2x as powerful as full power Cell, for his angered SSJ1 to be as strong as Cell?

 

[Power Level Guy]

Rightful-minded angry SSJ Gohan should surpass Cell. SSJ2 was a bonus.

Which Cell? FP PC?

 

[Dagon]

Which Cell? FP PC?

Yes.

 

[Power Level Guy]

Yes

I don't look at it like that. I look at it like Super Saiyan 2 is a just a by product of his rage, his rage would be the same, it's merely expressed as SSJ2 because his other forms can't handle such power at this time.

 

[Dagon]

I don't look at it like that. I look at it like Super Saiyan 2 is a just a by product of his rage, his rage would be the same, it's merely expressed as SSJ2 because his other forms can't handle such power at this time.

Mentality goes a long way. Plus, full power Perfect Cell is a powerup of unknown size, and and the power increase could help tie into the Buu Saga better.

 

[Power Level Guy]

Mentality goes a long way. Plus, full power Perfect Cell is a powerup of unknown size, and and the power increase could help tie into the Buu Saga better.

I think it's suggested to be monstrous. Cell sees Gohan one shot explode the Juniors and thinks he can get up there with him.

 

[ahill1]

Now that I looked into my manga again, there doesn't seem to be a statement from Goku indicating Gohan unleashed his true power when they were training in the RoSaT... Weird as I've read the manga for a while and haven't watched the anime in years. Maybe that scene of Gohan transforming in the RoSaT in the anime stuck into my head.

But since Gohan's enraged powers couldn't be measured, and Cell was still an unknown with FP, it makes more sense for Goku to have a basis on that true power based in what he has seen before. He also said "show me the power we made together" when encouraging Gohan to fire a KMHMH... I think it aligns with him knowing and helping to craft this power in the RoSaT, even if it happened accident like portrayed in the anime after the more intense sparring between Goku and Gohan.

Also, since it was framed as a discovery from Goku in the RoSaT, and the way Goku addressed that the only way to beat Cell was counting at Gohan's enraged powers --- without hinting at it being a change of perspective after seeing more from Cell, rather being something he planned all along --- with Gohan also saying he knew what his father meant right after Cell's all out speed attack... Then I think this discovery is directly connected with seeing Gohan showing it in the training --- since the story didn't seem to frame Goku's counting in Gohan as a change in perspective from "going from SSJ to enraged now", it flowed as something he counted from the start.

 

[Natasha Romanoff]

Goku doesn't seem surprised when SSJ2 Gohan emerged and he motivated Gohan to show the power they obtained by training in the Rosat when he had just one arm, so he always probably knew about it.

 

[SSJ2]

Goku doesn't need to be surprised by SSJ2 when the entire context of the arc is that Gohan has a tremendous amount of hidden power. This much has been known since Gohan was a child. Whether or not Gohan became that powerful by using a new form or not, Goku was expecting something to that effect because he had seen it during Gohan's entire life.

 

[Warmmedown]

Related question:

Is Gohan's SSJ1 multiplier the same as Goku, Vegeta and Trunks'? If they have a multiplier of x50, does Gohan have a lower one? Since he wasn't using his full potential.
For "rightful-minded angered" SSJ1 Gohan to beat Cell, he'd either need to be operating at a lower multiplier when not angry, or need to get a bigger multiplier than the other SSJs when angry. Which would it be?

 

[Worlor]

The concept of SSJ2 most likely didn't exist in Toriyama's mind back then, what we know as SSJ2 Gohan today seems to have been just Gohan's power unleashed(again) at the time, so propably a rage boost.

Because if he knew ssj2 existed then it makes him lazy for not attempting to get it even after he rested.