Where does buff cell stand in comparison to SS2 Gohan?

[Ultimate Cell]

[mention]Captain Cadaver[/mention] challenged
Do you think Buff Cell power had rivialed or surpassed Gohan power but couldnt used his power effectively due to him being slow or that Gohan still outclassed cell in power even in his buffed up state?

 

[Captain Cadaver]

Considering the amount of damage Gohan casually caused to him, it's definitely the latter. Daizenshuu 2 also speculates on SPC having matched or surpassed SS2 Gohan, which makes Power Weighted Cell being above him even less likely when the same source never gives his raw power any worthy spotlight. There's also the anime having SPC go on about his power, speed and technique all having truly become perfect, which wouldn't be true if a previous form surpassed even one of those.

 

[Ultimate Cell]

Considering the amount of damage Gohan casually caused to him, it's definitely the latter. Daizenshuu 2 also speculates on SPC having matched or surpassed SS2 Gohan, which makes Power Weighted Cell being above him even less likely when the same source never gives his raw power any worthy spotlight. There's also the anime having SPC go on about his power, speed and technique all having truly become perfect, which wouldn't be true if a previous form surpassed even one of those.

How much do you have Cell increasing his power in his weighted form? Didnt trunks compared it to his ssj grade 3 power?

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

Far, far below. Cell's super pefect power is his strongest level, and even then he could only stalemate a weakened Gohan.

 

[Captain Cadaver]

How much do you have Cell increasing his power in his weighted form? Didnt trunks compared it to his ssj grade 3 power?

Numerically? Far less in percentages than the power up implies when nothing within the manga directly contradicts SS2 = 2x SSJ and battle power gaps were never consistent even when they were relevant. Narrative-wise, a significant increase, though nowhere near that of Grade 3. Trunks compared Cell making the same mistake he did rather than the Power Weighted variant being exactly the same buff, plus spinoff material such as Super present the Grade forms as a true branch of the SSJ forms rather than just basic Ki weighting on top of SSJ.

 

[SSJ2]

SSJ2 Gohan: 200
Full Power Perfect Cell: 150
Power Weighted Cell: 170-175
Super Perfect Cell: weaker than Pikkon

 

[Pyro]

It's also worth noting that that translation of the D2 entry has been questioned as being "the strongest existence" period, rather than Cell's strongest power specifically. It was on Neoseeker, though I can't remember the exact thread.

Maybe in this thread? I don't know.

https://www.neoseeker.com/forums/88/t2362785-who-was-stronger-after-all-cell-ssj2-kid-gohan/

 

[SSJ2]

So the strongest existence was killed by a weaker existence?

 

[Pyro]

With assistance, yep.

 

[SSJ2]

A blast from Base Vegeta who could hardly move. Not to mention that half powa Gohan wasn't completely overwhelmed by Cell.

 

[Pyro]

Cell was toying with Gohan up until the end and then it was too late. Vegeta's blast was clearly enough of a momentum shifter that even Goku, who was watching from the afterlife, could tell it was the right time to strike.

 

[SSJ2]

Why was Goku so confident in Gohan’s victory beforehand? Surely he couldn’t predict that Base Vegeta would distract Cell?

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

Cell surely wouldn’t have been atomized out of existence when overwhelmed with a blast weaker than his own. not even Vegeta was when he got hit by Goku’s Kaio-Ken Kamehameha. And he wasn’t horsing around with Gohan either.

 

[Captain Cadaver]

Why was Goku so confident in Gohan’s victory beforehand? Surely he couldn’t predict that Base Vegeta would distract Cell?

Chapter: 458 (DBZ 264), P4.4-6
Goku: “Ah! Wait, Gohan. I have 2 more senzu; you should eat 1. You used up a lot of stamina earlier. [ ] Get angry, Gohan…Remember how you got angry and fought Cell, and draw out all of the power you have. If you do that, you won’t lose to anyone in the entire world! Not to anyone…

Goku clearly had faith that Gohan's rage would allow him to surpass anyone, particularly noteworthy when Gohan's peak at that point had already been surpassed by Goku (and far surpassed as we'd see later on). If Goku had so much faith then despite the gap, I don't see why he wouldn't against Cell.

Cell surely wouldn’t have been atomized out of existence when overwhelmed with a blast weaker than his own.

I don't think anyone's saying it wasn't. The Daizenshuu makes it pretty clear Gohan got a rage boost at the end of the beam struggle, as do several statements from the Boo Arc and implications of its scaling.

And he wasn’t horsing around with Gohan either.

Of course he's not horsing around if it's not BoJack.

I wouldn't exactly say this is the face of someone taking things entirely serious.

Spoiler

 

[SIAD]

Why was Goku so confident in Gohan’s victory beforehand? Surely he couldn’t predict that Base Vegeta would distract Cell?

Chapter: 458 (DBZ 264), P4.4-6
Goku: “Ah! Wait, Gohan. I have 2 more senzu; you should eat 1. You used up a lot of stamina earlier. [ ] Get angry, Gohan…Remember how you got angry and fought Cell, and draw out all of the power you have. If you do that, you won’t lose to anyone in the entire world! Not to anyone…

Goku clearly had faith that Gohan's rage would allow him to surpass anyone, particularly noteworthy when Gohan's peak at that point had already been surpassed by Goku (and far surpassed as we'd see later on). If Goku had so much faith then despite the gap, I don't see why he wouldn't against Cell.

Cell surely wouldn’t have been atomized out of existence when overwhelmed with a blast weaker than his own.

I don't think anyone's saying it wasn't. The Daizenshuu makes it pretty clear Gohan got a rage boost at the end of the beam struggle, as do several statements from the Boo Arc and implications of its scaling.

And he wasn’t horsing around with Gohan either.

Of course he's not horsing around if it's not BoJack.

I wouldn't exactly say this is the face of someone taking things entirely serious.

Spoiler

Do you believe: Goku / Majin Vegeta SSJ2> Kid Gohan SSJ2 (Enraged)> Vegeta SSJ2 (Pre Majin) >> Teen Gohan SSJ2 = Dabura = SPC = Kid Gohan SSJ2?

 

[Captain Cadaver]

Do you believe: Goku / Majin Vegeta SSJ2> Kid Gohan SSJ2 (Enraged)> Vegeta SSJ2 (Pre Majin) >> Teen Gohan SSJ2 = Dabura = SPC = Kid Gohan SSJ2?

I'd say SS2 Goku = SS2 Majin Vegeta > Enraged SS2 Gohan >/>> Pre-Majin SS2 Vegeta > Dabura ~ SPC > SS2 CG Gohan ~ SS2 Boo Arc Gohan, but close enough.

 

[SIAD]

Do you believe: Goku / Majin Vegeta SSJ2> Kid Gohan SSJ2 (Enraged)> Vegeta SSJ2 (Pre Majin) >> Teen Gohan SSJ2 = Dabura = SPC = Kid Gohan SSJ2?

I'd say SS2 Goku = SS2 Majin Vegeta > Enraged SS2 Gohan >/>> Pre-Majin SS2 Vegeta > Dabura ~ SPC > SS2 CG Gohan ~ SS2 Boo Arc Gohan, but close enough.

And how could it be explained that Gohan SSJ2 seemed to be on the level of Dabura and Goku saying that Dabura is stronger than he thought?

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

Why was Goku so confident in Gohan’s victory beforehand? Surely he couldn’t predict that Base Vegeta would distract Cell?

Chapter: 458 (DBZ 264), P4.4-6
Goku: “Ah! Wait, Gohan. I have 2 more senzu; you should eat 1. You used up a lot of stamina earlier. [ ] Get angry, Gohan…Remember how you got angry and fought Cell, and draw out all of the power you have. If you do that, you won’t lose to anyone in the entire world! Not to anyone…

Goku clearly had faith that Gohan's rage would allow him to surpass anyone, particularly noteworthy when Gohan's peak at that point had already been surpassed by Goku (and far surpassed as we'd see later on). If Goku had so much faith then despite the gap, I don't see why he wouldn't against Cell.

Cell surely wouldn’t have been atomized out of existence when overwhelmed with a blast weaker than his own.

I don't think anyone's saying it wasn't. The Daizenshuu makes it pretty clear Gohan got a rage boost at the end of the beam struggle, as do several statements from the Boo Arc and implications of its scaling.

And he wasn’t horsing around with Gohan either.

Of course he's not horsing around if it's not BoJack.

I wouldn't exactly say this is the face of someone taking things entirely serious.

Spoiler

Eh, he doesn’t look like the kind to horse around.

Well he indeed wasn’t, not compared to Gohan at least, but there’s no reason to assume he was holding back. He came back for revenge this time, he wanted them all dead and took his sweet time to charge this solar system buster Kamehameha

 

[Captain Cadaver]

Well he indeed wasn’t, not compared to Gohan at least, but there’s no reason to assume he was holding back. He came back for revenge this time, he wanted them all dead and took his sweet time to charge this solar system buster Kamehameha

He took his time to take out fodder like Trunks and gloat about his power up, so it seems he wanted to take his time enjoying the victory in general. He also smirked when Gohan decided to fight back, clearly amused by his attempts at resistance which may have caused him to mess around in the beam struggle.

And how could it be explained that Gohan SSJ2 seemed to be on the level of Dabura and Goku saying that Dabura is stronger than he thought?

Gohan was still on Dabura's level, though was at a disadvantage during the fight. Goku's statement refers to Dabura's magic rather than his Ki being stronger than he thought.

 

[SIAD]

Well he indeed wasn’t, not compared to Gohan at least, but there’s no reason to assume he was holding back. He came back for revenge this time, he wanted them all dead and took his sweet time to charge this solar system buster Kamehameha

He took his time to take out fodder like Trunks and gloat about his power up, so it seems he wanted to take his time enjoying the victory in general. He also smirked when Gohan decided to fight back, clearly amused by his attempts at resistance which may have caused him to mess around in the beam struggle.

And how could it be explained that Gohan SSJ2 seemed to be on the level of Dabura and Goku saying that Dabura is stronger than he thought?

Gohan was still on Dabura's level, though was at a disadvantage during the fight. Goku's statement refers to Dabura's magic rather than his Ki being stronger than he thought.

Shouldn't Teen Gohan SSJ2 be = Kid Gohan SSJ2?