Where does buff cell stand in comparison to SS2 Gohan?

[GreatSaiyaman123]

Do you believe: Goku / Majin Vegeta SSJ2> Kid Gohan SSJ2 (Enraged)> Vegeta SSJ2 (Pre Majin) >> Teen Gohan SSJ2 = Dabura = SPC = Kid Gohan SSJ2?

I'd say SS2 Goku = SS2 Majin Vegeta > Enraged SS2 Gohan >/>> Pre-Majin SS2 Vegeta > Dabura ~ SPC > SS2 CG Gohan ~ SS2 Boo Arc Gohan, but close enough.

But why would Vegeta say Gohan got far weaker if his power is the same? Or by “Enraged Gohan” you mean his SSJ2 power for the whole duration of the Cell Games?

 

[Captain Cadaver]

Vegeta only refers to Gohan being weaker than he was when he killed Cell (ie. his rage boost at the end of the struggle) and when commenting on him being worse in general from when he was specifically referring to how unskilled he was. This lines up fairly well with the Daizenshuu entry stating Gohan's power hadn't changed other than in SS2 where he couldn't access as much rage anymore.

 

[SIAD]

Vegeta only refers to Gohan being weaker than he was when he killed Cell (ie. his rage boost at the end of the struggle) and when commenting on him being worse in general from when he was specifically referring to how unskilled he was. This lines up fairly well with the Daizenshuu entry stating Gohan's power hadn't changed other than in SS2 where he couldn't access as much rage anymore.

So Teen Gohan SSJ2 = Kid Gohan SSJ2?

 

[Captain Cadaver]

Probably, going by the Daizenshuu and how what the manga has lines up with it.

 

[Goku9001]

Buff Cell is still much, much weaker than SSJ2 Gohan. Gohan still managed to one-shot Cell and force him to regurgitate Android 18 and Cell is probably one of the most resilient fighters in the manga.

 

[ahill1]

The Daizenshuu sounds kinda confusing tbh. It says Gohan isn't the same powerhouse he once was, but then it says his power didn't change... if his power didn't change, then he isn't the same powerhouse he once was.

 

[Captain Cadaver]

The Daizenshuu sounds kinda confusing tbh. It says Gohan isn't the same powerhouse he once was, but then it says his power didn't change... if his power didn't change, then he isn't the same powerhouse he once was.

It's most likely to assume it means Enraged SS2 Gohan >> SS2 Gohan (CG) ~ SS2 Gohan (Boo Arc), seeing as the Daizenshuu specifies his SS2 form isn't as strong as it was due to not being able to tap into the same level of rage.

 

[ahill1]

The Daizenshuu sounds kinda confusing tbh. It says Gohan isn't the same powerhouse he once was, but then it says his power didn't change... if his power didn't change, then he isn't the same powerhouse he once was.

It's most likely to assume it means Enraged SS2 Gohan >> SS2 Gohan (CG) ~ SS2 Gohan (Boo Arc), seeing as the Daizenshuu specifies his SS2 form isn't as strong as it was due to not being able to tap into the same level of rage.

Then Gohan GOT WEAKER, nevermind it being his enraged or normal self.

 

[Captain Cadaver]

Rage was always treat as a temporary boost for Gohan, so it seems doubtful the Daizenshuu would take it into account when discussing his more general power.

 

[ahill1]

Rage was always treat as a temporary boost for Gohan, so it seems doubtful the Daizenshuu would take it into account when discussing his more general power.

Why did Vegeta consider it as a factor then?

 

[SSJ2]

SSJ2 Gohan: 100
SPC: 96
SSJ2 Gohan Half: 50
SSJ2 Gohan rage burst: 100

Fact.

 

[Captain Cadaver]

Why did Vegeta consider it as a factor then?

Vegeta considered it a variable, but nothing concrete. He also didn't see it as something that would allow Gohan to maintain the top spot permanently without training despite Goku believing nobody could match Gohan if he utilised his rage.

 

[ahill1]

Why did Vegeta consider it as a factor then?

Vegeta considered it a variable, but nothing concrete. He also didn't see it as something that would allow Gohan to maintain the top spot permanently without training despite Goku believing nobody could match Gohan if he utilised his rage.

If Gohan is weaker solely due to not being as enraged as he once was, then I think Vegeta's anger at Gohan is a little misplaced. Gohan would have merit for being as strong as he normally once was, but he can't control how enraged he feels.

 

[SIAD]

Why did Vegeta consider it as a factor then?

Vegeta considered it a variable, but nothing concrete. He also didn't see it as something that would allow Gohan to maintain the top spot permanently without training despite Goku believing nobody could match Gohan if he utilised his rage.

If Gohan is weaker solely due to not being as enraged as he once was, then I think Vegeta's anger at Gohan is a little misplaced. Gohan would have merit for being as strong as he normally once was, but he can't control how enraged he feels.

Vegeta was angry at Gohan for only keeping his power within those 7 years. It bothers him that despite being a teenager, he does not achieve his power that he had when he was a child. Plus Gohan was rusty.

 

[SSJ2]

Vegeta literally said he was stronger as a kid.

 

[ahill1]

Vegeta considered it a variable, but nothing concrete. He also didn't see it as something that would allow Gohan to maintain the top spot permanently without training despite Goku believing nobody could match Gohan if he utilised his rage.

If Gohan is weaker solely due to not being as enraged as he once was, then I think Vegeta's anger at Gohan is a little misplaced. Gohan would have merit for being as strong as he normally once was, but he can't control how enraged he feels.

Vegeta was angry at Gohan for only keeping his power within those 7 years. It bothers him that despite being a teenager, he does not achieve his power that he had when he was a child. Plus Gohan was rusty.

He said Gohan was a lot weaker. That's what bothered him. If Gohan is weaker only due to losing something he couldn't outright control, I don't see him being so frustrated as he was.

 

[Captain Cadaver]

A lot of that frustration came more so from Gohan's complete lack of skill rather than purely his drop in power.

 

[SSJ2]

Chapter: 455 (DBZ 261), P6.1-2
Context: as Dabra fights Gohan
Goku: “Magic, huh? He’s way stronger than I thought, ain’t he?”
Vegeta: “Hmph…Even so, he’s not an opponent [he? we?] can’t win against. [Gohan]’s so pathetic…So much so that he was stronger as a brat…”
Goku: “He really did slack off!”


I don't really see Vegeta commenting on Gohan's lack of skill. His frustration was driven by the fact that he didn't want to be there in the first place. The battle would have ended much faster if Gohan was stronger as opposed to being more skillful.

 

[Captain Cadaver]

He didn't comment of it, but the context makes it fairly evident that the drop in skill was a factor. This was immediately after Gohan had fell for a Zanzoken and been directly hit off-guard by Dabura. Vegeta also became further frustrated after Gohan barely avoided being turned to stone, and there's also Dabura's statement about Gohan being trash he could easily deal with and Gohan still not being sure of beating him even after a senzu. Either Dabura's full power is far above Gohan or this helps show how severely diminished Gohan's skills were if someone more or less on his level of power has full confidence in easily trouncing him in Round 2.

 

[Goku9001]

So the general consensus here is that Kid Gohan = Teen Gohan outside of rage? If so, I disagree. The manga made it very clear that Gohan had powered down due to lack of training and dulled fighting instincts. The whole reason Goku and Vegeta even bring up rage is that even despite Gohan's atrophy, there's no telling how powerful he'd become because his latent potential is completely unpredictable.