Why do some people think Future Gohan...

[Fantastische Hure]

@withheldforprivacy, you could just think Gohan is higher regardless of what you think of that statement. That could work, too. Obviously gaps'd get huge, but it is what it is.

@Papasmurf, couldn't Trunks just have been flabbergasted that Goku was somehow higher than him? I mean, yeah he's heard the legends of Goku, but to see for himself is a different matter entirely. Like "Fack. I've been training for so many years in the future and am still weaker than this fellow from 20 years in the past."

 

[Papasmurf]

I don't think so. He's been fed stories of Goku from Gohan who openly admitted he was still unable to reach his dad's strength by the time he died, and from Bulma who repeatedly stressed Goku seemed like someone that could do anything. I really don't think Trunks went into the past thinking Goku was just barely stronger than him, especially after he just got embarrassed badly by the androids.

 

[Fantastische Hure]

I don't think so. He's been fed stories of Goku from Gohan who openly admitted he was still unable to reach his dad's strength by the time he died, and from Bulma who repeatedly stressed Goku seemed like someone that could do anything. I really don't think Trunks went into the past thinking Goku was just barely stronger than him, especially after he just got embarrassed badly by the androids.

True, but then if you look at the time of Trunks' Debut, it seems like the message at the time was the Androids surpass even Super-Saiyans which doesn't seem to imply that Goku is all that much higher than Trunks. Like Super-Saiyans are in a league of their own.

 

[Papasmurf]

They are in a similar league, but Goku's best impression of Trunks is "You weren't trying your hardest" while Trunks is shocked at his strength and says "The rumors were true... no, you surpass them." and tells him I believe you can save the Earth, which definitely suggests they weren't really rivals.

 

[Fantastische Hure]

Well, I'd say they were distant rivals (like Cell vs Goku fight), but that's just me.

 

[withheldforprivacy]

I don't see the difference between 'seconds' and 'instant in that context.

''In seconds'' doesn't have to mean in an instant, it can mean, say, in less than one minute.
Remember Monster Zarbon, in the manga, defeated Vegeta in seemingly less than one
minute, with a gap like 1.16x. That's why i'm saying Trunks doesn't have to be hugely above
Freeza.

 

[Fantastische Hure]

I don't see the difference between 'seconds' and 'instant in that context.

''In seconds'' doesn't have to mean in an instant, it can mean, say, in less than one minute.
Remember Monster Zarbon, in the manga, defeated Vegeta in seemingly less than one
minute, with a gap like 1.16x. That's why i'm saying Trunks doesn't have to be hugely above
Freeza.

But the way Freeza was one-shotted seems to imply to me no matter what Freeza wasn't going to do any better.

 

[withheldforprivacy]

I don't see the difference between 'seconds' and 'instant in that context.

''In seconds'' doesn't have to mean in an instant, it can mean, say, in less than one minute.
Remember Monster Zarbon, in the manga, defeated Vegeta in seemingly less than one
minute, with a gap like 1.16x. That's why i'm saying Trunks doesn't have to be hugely above
Freeza.

But the way Freeza was one-shotted seems to imply to me no matter what Freeza wasn't going to do any better.

In my country's dub, Trunks said to Freeza ''you'd better take me seriously, even though it'll make no big difference''. That
implies FP Freeza wouldn't do any better, but is it in the japanese as well?

 

[theallpowerfulpuipui]

Gohan had no idea how the Androids compared to Mecha Freeza. All he knew was that, just like with
Mecha Freeza, they couldn't win without his father.

Gohan sensed Frieza'soldiers power, it's a really good bet he trained to surpass that by a decent margin. Remember tracksuit wasn't invented yet Gohan was still badass.

 

[Fantastische Hure]

''In seconds'' doesn't have to mean in an instant, it can mean, say, in less than one minute.
Remember Monster Zarbon, in the manga, defeated Vegeta in seemingly less than one
minute, with a gap like 1.16x. That's why i'm saying Trunks doesn't have to be hugely above
Freeza.

But the way Freeza was one-shotted seems to imply to me no matter what Freeza wasn't going to do any better.

In my country's dub, Trunks said to Freeza ''you'd better take me seriously, even though it'll make no big difference''. That
implies FP Freeza wouldn't do any better, but is it in the japanese as well?

I'm not sure actually.

 

[p123]

It wasn't so much Goku's power that gave Bulma hope. It was Goku's resiliency more than anything. I don't think Bulma thinks that Goku at his power prior to death, could beat the Androids. But she knows, somehow, someway, he would figure it out.

Vegeta couldn't have been a Super Saiyan in the Future Timeline, it really messes up a lot of logical assumptions regarding Gohan and his chances. Also, it doesn't make sense for Vegeta to be so weak, when he should be most likely above Yardrat Goku if anything. I think it was very difficult for Vegeta to pull off Super Saiyan just in time for the Present Androids, I don't think he got it in the Future.

 

[p123]

Let's see the maximum kind of gap here.

Freeza 140
Namek Goku 150
Mecha Freeza 160
Future Gohan 180
Future 17 ( Less than Half ) 220
Future Gohan 240
Future Trunks 250
Yardrat Goku 300
Piccolo 400
Androids Trunks 500
Androids Goku 525
Androids Vegeta 550
Future 18 550
Future 17 550
Present 18 750
Present 17 800
Kamiccolo 800


This looks pretty damn good to me... No reason for growth to be stunted just because they are Super Saiyans. Just not suggested imo.

 

[ahill1]

It doesn't seem stupid for Gohan to challenge the androids while being weaker than Mecha Freeza, since for all he knows, these artificial humans don't have to be that strong, unless he saw the Z warriors getting killed, I don't know. Like said, it makes more sense if Vegeta weren't as SSJ in the future, by the way he described how he attained it in the androids arrival. So, all the androids' feats were killing opponents maybe stronger than base Yardrat Goku level, nothing that makes Gohan believe they were anything like stronger than Freeza imo.

1 arm Gohan, on the other hand, was close to Mecha saga Trunks, who could instantly defeat Mecha Freeza. So, in all likelihood, he is above Mecha Freeza too.

2 arms Gohan 140
Namek Goku 150
Mecha Freeza 155
1 arm Gohan 180
Mecha saga Trunks 200

 

[Let's Go Fearless!]

Vegeta stayed on Earth just to learn how to turn SSjin so you're telling me that he didn't learned it in 3 years?

 

[Animelover5487]

Vegeta stayed on Earth just to learn how to turn SSjin so you're telling me that he didn't learned it in 3 years?

I would imagine with Goku dead he could have lost his motivation to train extra hard, it doesn't help that in this timeline he doesn't have some seemingly random kid who's also stronger than him and can turn into a Super Saiyan to compete with as well and obviously there's no Android threat warning so Vegeta was probably doing moderate to slightly severe training.

 

[Let's Go Fearless!]

Vegeta stayed on Earth just to learn how to turn SSjin so you're telling me that he didn't learned it in 3 years?

I would imagine with Goku dead he could have lost his motivation to train extra hard, it doesn't help that in this timeline he doesn't have some seemingly random kid who's also stronger than him and can turn into a Super Saiyan to compete with as well.

His motivation were

1. Transforming into SSjin
2. Surpassing Goku

With Goku out of the picture, his motivation is still to become SSjin.

 

[ahill1]

Yeah. Future Trunks said Goku would die briefly after the events of Mecha saga. Herms has it as 6 months iirc. Vegeta also didn't know about the androids' threat and with his rival gone his will to train and attain the SSJ would be much lower than what it was in the timeline we know.

Even in the timeline we know, Vegeta admitted attaining SSJ was pretty hard and the transformation had to be awakened by a moment of rage due to his lack of success.

 

[Animelover5487]

Vegeta stayed on Earth just to learn how to turn SSjin so you're telling me that he didn't learned it in 3 years?

I would imagine with Goku dead he could have lost his motivation to train extra hard, it doesn't help that in this timeline he doesn't have some seemingly random kid who's also stronger than him and can turn into a Super Saiyan to compete with as well.

His motivation were

1. Transforming into SSjin
2. Surpassing Goku

With Goku out of the picture, his motivation is still to become SSjin.

Yeah but he still has no one to push him to those limits. In the Present timeline it looked like Vegeta had to bust his ass with training and only obtained it through his fierce desire.

 

[Papasmurf]

Yeah Future Vegeta shouldn't have SSJ goin by what's implied in the manga.

 

[ahill1]

I wouldn't say it's impossible though, seeing how he attained SSJ2 in the seven years gap between the Cell saga and the Boo saga, when Goku was gone and there was no upcoming threat.