why has AT's...

[Fantastische Hure]

dragonball feel changed so much (if i can ask)? i knw that there was a big gap between ending of dragonball & battle-of-gods but the atmosphere seemed to have changed so much that doesn't even feel the same anymore i think. i'd think even after a long-time, if some things might change the general atmosphere might remain, but not for dragonball that seems i think.

might that be because AT's only writing the movies & so-on & not actually drawing (if i can ask)? no, that can't be i think, even when considering that there are still weird jokes like freeza i think.

 

[Fantastische Hure]

could that be that that rly was the editors back-then that steered dragonball to the direction that that went back-then (if i can ask)?

 

[Papasmurf]

I think it's because he's forgotten so much and admitted he knows what little he knows about the series now because he found some old notes he stashed in his drawer. Hell, he said he read the entirety of his manga prior to working on BoG and he still didn't remember if Bulma had met Freeza or not on Namek, let alone some of the more obscure and less noticeable details that fans pick apart and analyze on the daily. That, and the lack of an editor that can literally tell him to scrap a villain or make real changes to the storyline gives him more freedom to do shit that he likes but isn't really good from a writing standpoint.

Plus, Toei and Toyotaro, who seem to know AT's own series better than he does at this point, don't seem to try to do any kind of quality control and are incompetent writers themselves. Let's not forget that Bardock was seen with his shoulderless armor and headband in the Freeza arc flashback, but in Broly couldn't even keep consistent to that, nor did Toei make any effort to correct him.

 

[Fantastische Hure]

& he changed bardock's entire character i think

the editors rly might have kept his bad writing in check, even-though there were some arguably bad cases of them asking for changes too i think

 

[Fantastische Hure]

also i think they helped him with the direction that went, at-least the 1st editor. consider i think he told him to go the martial-arts/fighting route.

 

[Papasmurf]

& he changed bardock's entire character i think

the editors rly might have kept his bad writing in check, even-though there were some arguably bad cases of them asking for changes too i think

Well, there was no real character to change. AT said even in the 90s that the anime wasn't his story, so if he ever did a Bardock backstory it'd be different. He liked the special, but he also liked Janenba's design, and that sure as hell doesn't make M12 canon, only Gogeta because he showed up in DBS Broly. The canon attainment of Future Trunks getting SSJ is the one in the manga, which happened shortly before Gohan's death, not after it like in the anime which is Toei's product, not AT's.

If you're asking which stories I prefer between the manga equivalents of the Bardock and Trunks specials, then it's obviously going to be the much more fleshed out anime specials, but that doesn't mean AT wrote them.

 

[Fantastische Hure]

the janemba case is diff. tho i think. janemba was never in manga i think. jst cause he likes that doesn't make automatically make that canon i think.

trunks special iirc came-after the manga chapter, so they jst changed the story for the anime on their own i think. manga obvsly probably is canon i think.

bardock was in the manga after the special & he talked abt that as if that was canon now i think.

 

[Papasmurf]

bardock was in the manga after the special & he talked abt that as if that was canon now i think.

It's canon because AT drew Minus, he didn't even make Toyotaro take care of the art and dialogue like he does with Super and the FnF manga adaptation. AT had no involvement in the Bardock special beyond fixing Bardock and his crew's designs. Doesn't matter which came first, AT had almost zero involvement in the special and 100% involvement in Minus and Broly.

 

[Fantastische Hure]

i meant he talked abt the tv-special as if that was canon at the time i think

 

[Papasmurf]

He really didn't. He said it was a dark and gritty story with writing quality that he couldn't produce but he also said in the 90s and 2000s (iirc) that if he wrote Bardock into his own story, his backstory would be different because he considers movies to be in a different dimension and doesn't give a shit about fillers, even fillers he himself wrote the story for like the Illusion Saiyans and whatnot. The only filler that AT really acknowledged was the Tsufurian-Saiyan conflict, and that's only because it was probably on his mind in the first place (which is why he left it in his notes and remembered it in the 2010s) but didn't put it in the manga since there was no place for it in the Freeza arc.

 

[Fantastische Hure]

But I really thought, “So that’s how it was.”

That’s right. Because I myself came around to the idea that I’m drawing a grand drama. (laughs)

source:kanzenshuu.com/translations/dbz-anime-special-2-super-anime-jin/

i think

 

[Papasmurf]

Yeah but he still said in an anime guidebook (not sure if it was Daizenshuu or something like DB Forever) that his version of Bardock would be different. He still incorporated stuff from the movie like Bardock trying to shoot a blast at Freeza only to have it and the whole planet swallowed by Freeza's death ball, so he didn't exactly rewrite the entire thing.

 

[Fantastische Hure]

AT sits-around meticulously & plans wot he could say in an anime book compared to manga 1 (if u can & want to answer)?

 

[Papasmurf]

AT sits-around meticulously & plans wot he could say in an anime book compared to manga 1 (if u can & want to answer)?

I think he said it in DB forever or an interview during the 90s but I'm too lazy to dig it up. Either way AT has said on multiple occasions that he was too busy to meddle with the anime much, Super is the first anime he's had a hands on approach with like refusing to let Jiren scream Justice!!! and talk a lot, designing Caulifla to go along with the anime staff's design of Kale and so on. AT has also refused to answer whether SSJ4 has any place in his story when it was brought up with SSJ2 and SSJ3 in that interview where he said Galu probably won't use SSJ2/3 anymore (which was proven bullshit in the Trunks arc, but still shows anime-only forms like SSJ4 aren't part of his canon).

 

[Fantastische Hure]

he's already gone senile now i think, so maybe this thread's q doesn't matter after-all i think

 

[Papasmurf]

he's already gone senile now i think, so maybe this thread's q doesn't matter after-all i think

Let's wait until Super Hero comes out to see if he's really lost it. If it's as bad as FnF was then I fully agree, he's a senile old man and DB died with the original manga in 1995

 

[Fantastische Hure]

well right now i think i can say that the name does not inspire hope

 

[SSJ2]

He's way past his prime.

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

Pretty sure he was already losing it by the time he wrote Nekomajin Z

 

[Papasmurf]

Pretty sure he was already losing it by the time he wrote Nekomajin Z

Thats a self parody though lol. It's not supposed to make any sense in continuity, plus at least that one still showed adult Goten and a teenage Pan, things we won't see in Super until 2030