Why Piccolo forfeited against Kaioshin.

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Piccolo was aware that Kaioshin is a godly being because of Kami's influence and Kaioshin confirmed this.
sdragon_ball_z_v021-104.jpg

Noticed that how Kaioshin mentioned about his identity, plus Piccolo asked him whether he was a Kaioshin or not which again proves why Piccolo forfeited against him.

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Just look at his reaction! It's priceless!!! That should tell you how greatly he respect the Supreme Kai.

And when he learned that Kaioshin died. His reaction again!!!!
mdragon_ball_z_v023-066.jpg


Therefore, Kaioshin is not stronger than Piccolo because of his feats and only high regarded because he's a Supreme Kai that's all. What do you think? :idk
 

sei'taer

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And all of piccolo's quotes about his strength before piccolo realizes he's a kaioshin?
 

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sei'taer said:
And all of piccolo's quotes about his strength before piccolo realizes he's a kaioshin?
Like I said, Kami's influenced allowed Piccolo to sensed the gods and he was speculating whether Shin is the Great Kaioh or not. Goku and the others knew that Kaioshin is not a human so they were expecting them to be so strong. Even Vegeta doesn't know it.

sdragon_ball_z_v021-102.jpg
 

Evil Vegeta

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I did a long wall post on another site many months back:

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So the Daizenshuu's stance on Kaioshin and Piccolo seem clear.

Now let's look at the Anime/Manga. I'm using Anime images (because I didn't feel like scanning :troll), but the dialogue is the same.

No one knows how strong Kaioshin is. His power is a complete mystery:

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Piccolo in particular can't understand why it's so hard to make a move against him:

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Kaioshin makes it seem like Piccolo was just catching on to his real identity rather than anything else:

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This goes along with the idea that Piccolo was only alarmed by Kaioshin's Godly presence instead of his power.

Now let's see what Piccolo says to the others:

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For those not too familiar with the "Dimensions" line, it's often used to imply a huge difference in power. I can see how someone could interpret the line to be about status, though. Here's an example of it being used to describe Super Saiyan:

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When Goku was fighting #19, Tien described the power of Super Saiyan as being in a "whole different dimension" than them.

Like I said before, you can just say Piccolo told Goku and the others this instead of getting into a long-winded explanation on who he thought Kaioshin was. It comes down to your interpretation of the scene.

Manga:

Goku: “That much, Piccolo?...”
Piccolo: “Yeah…Our dimensions…are too different…”
Kuririn: “Yo-you’re kidding, right? Stop joking around! I-I’ve got to fight him next.”

Basically the same lines from the anime and Japanese manga are the same.

Now interestingly enough, the line in the Viz translation is much different:

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"Different order of being" makes it seem like Piccolo is referring to Kaioshin's status over everything else. So if anything, this version seems to be for the idea that Piccolo only freaked out over his status as a God, right? Well, not exactly.

The "Different order of being" line is also used to denote Kenshin's power in the Rurouni Kenshin manga:

2m2uyk3.jpg

So while being worded differently from Japanese to English, "Different order of being" is comparable to "Our dimensions are too different" when all is said and done.

Being totally objective here, Piccolo sensing Kaioshin's Chi would make this scene a plot-hole. No one there could sense Kaioshin's Chi because he was a deity. The only person who could sense him was Kibito. In Super, Piccolo was unable to sense Beers' Chi, but Dende could because he was the Kami of Earth. Logically, that would make Piccolo unable to gauge Kaioshin's power back in the Boo saga. It seems like Kaioshin's Godly aura should've been the emphasis of what Piccolo was sensing, but this doesn't mean Kaioshin can't be above Piccolo.

Personally, I go with Kaioshin being the superior of the two. Both of these niggas are ass in the Boo saga, so it doesn't make much of a difference. Even though the Daizenshuu says Piccolo forfeited because Kaioshin was too strong, this doesn't seem to be reflected on in the manga or anime. Piccolo just seemed to be paralyzed by Kaioshin's mysterious presence.

Most of this stuff is already known, but I just felt like posting it here.
 

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Nah, Daizenshuu is shit. I wouldn't used it as evidence since it contradicts the majority of manga like this one. :idk

Piccolo said that because he knew that Shin is a Kaioshin who is greater than the normal Kais so that means he must be strong! But too bad Kaioshin is weak as hell even Goku and Vegeta agrees with it.

Strength Checker wrote:
Chapter: 461 (DBZ 267), P4.6, P5.4-6
Goku: “It’s a ki…! A huge ki has appeared…! Majin Boo has finally come out…”
Vegeta: “Fuffuffuh…Majin Boo, huh?...Here I was wondering what kind of amazing guy he would be, and he’s got this kind of battle power number?...I thought so…Kakarot, you and I have now become too strong…By a wide margin! By his nature, Kaioshin is supposed to be someone tremendous, but have you ever once thought that he was incredible? Quite the opposite, it's Kaioshin who’s been bewildered…Majin Boo is fearsome from Kaioshin’s perspective, but from ours he’s not so much…”
Goku: “N-no…That’s not it…There’s something abnormal about this ki...”

Plus, SSjin Goku threatens to kill Kaioshin if he stop their fight which proves that Kaioshin is weaker than SSjins but Piccolo is only twice weaker than that yet he stated that Kaioshin is completely different dimension than him unless 2x is considered enough to be a 'dimension' in terms of gap. Whether you believed that Piccolo is in the league of 50% Goku or not is another topic.
 

xmysticgohanx

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Kaioshin's feats vs Boo suggest he's far above Piccolo. He even survived Boo's explosion thing. The statements back it up too
 

p123

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Piccolo quit due to Kaioshin's godly presence. How strong Kaioshin is, is very tough to determine. He looks extremely weak in the ship and he seems pretty powerful when fighting Buu.
 

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None of the Z Senshi can tell how powerful East Kaioshin is, so I'd like to interpret it as Piccolo just overestimating Kaioshin because of his status.
 

Evil Vegeta

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I think we can all agree Piccolo didn't forfeit because of Kaioshin's raw power. He just told them Kaioshin was stronger so he wouldn't have to go into detail about his identity.

Despite that, Kaioshin can still be well above Piccolo. That's how I see it. Piccolo chopping Bobbidi in half while Kaioshin just talked about slamming him to the ground is funny, though. Makes me think Kaioshin is just not trained in physical combat or something.
 

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Evil Vegeta said:
Being totally objective here, Piccolo sensing Kaioshin's Chi would make this scene a plot-hole. No one there could sense Kaioshin's Chi because he was a deity. The only person who could sense him was Kibito. In Super, Piccolo was unable to sense Beers' Chi, but Dende could because he was the Kami of Earth. Logically, that would make Piccolo unable to gauge Kaioshin's power back in the Boo saga. It seems like Kaioshin's Godly aura should've been the emphasis of what Piccolo was sensing, but this doesn't mean Kaioshin can't be above Piccolo.

Here is my gripe with Kaioshin > Piccolo. If you can agree that Piccolo being able to sense Kaioshin is a plot hole/cannot happen, how does he know that Kaioshin's dimension is too different? Goku clearly had no idea since he was asking, and Piccolo is on the same level of godliness as Goku.

It seems that the only true indicator is the Daizenshuu, as they blatantly state that Piccolo is inferior. The manga states it too, but there's no backing behind it.
 

Evil Vegeta

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Kaioshin came to the conclusion that Piccolo must've sensed him because he was the former God of the planet. Other than that, I'm not sure how else he would've come to that conclusion. In Super, God Chi is stated to feel like "immense pressure" by those who are unable to sense it. Maybe Piccolo sensed that pressure and realized he was a higher God? But then, wouldn't this have been the first time Piccolo ever encountered Chi of this variety? I don't think there's a real answer to this one.
 

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I personally believe Piccolo was talking about hierarchy in that statement. I've had a debate with VoR about this a few weeks ago, but our points of view differed so strongly that we just had to stop.

But debate with Kaboom about this and he will simply yell "KAIOSHIN IS STRONGER, THAT'S FLAT-OUT STATED AND THERE IS NO ROOm FOR DEBATE!!" no matter how many times you try to bring the evidence to him :alex2
 

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Evil Vegeta said:
I think we can all agree Piccolo didn't forfeit because of Kaioshin's raw power. He just told them Kaioshin was stronger so he wouldn't have to go into detail about his identity.

Despite that, Kaioshin can still be well above Piccolo. That's how I see it. Piccolo chopping Bobbidi in half while Kaioshin just talked about slamming him to the ground is funny, though. Makes me think Kaioshin is just not trained in physical combat or something.

Why didn't Babidi try to fight back? :et

Do his spells just not work on green people with huge ears?
 

Evil Vegeta

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Lol, I actually wondered why he was so quick to call Boo instead of at least try to put a barrier up or something.

From what we know, Bobbidi believes his superiority to his father (or Doppelganger :troll) would make the difference in Kaioshin. We see that Bobbidi can make you explode and at least bind you like he did to Kaioshin in Super. Outside of that, I wonder how he a battle between a brave Bobbidi and Piccolo would've looked.
 

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My only guess would be that Babidi isn't actually that strong since he had Dabra right there to back up his big talk, so he didn't really need to fight Kaioshit until he'd similarly weakened him like in DBS, and for what it's worth Fat Boo said outright that Babidi would get assraped by Goku even before he saw his Super Saiyan forms. Ofc fatty can't sense ki, but if he thinks that lowly of Babidi, he might really be below-PuiPui tier trash :et
 

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I always liked when Fat Boo said that. Bobbidi realized Fat man wasn't as dumb as he looked.

But he still pissed him off, anyway.
 

sei'taer

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Fearless Boo said:
sei'taer said:
And all of piccolo's quotes about his strength before piccolo realizes he's a kaioshin?
Like I said, Kami's influenced allowed Piccolo to sensed the gods and he was speculating whether Shin is the Great Kaioh or not. Goku and the others knew that Kaioshin is not a human so they were expecting them to be so strong. Even Vegeta doesn't know it.

sdragon_ball_z_v021-102.jpg

I can't see the image, but piccolo only realizes that Shin was a god when he reads his mind. Not before.

Before that he's visibly sweating at the prospect of fighting him. And even goku doesn't think they can make a clean sweep of the tournament. Now clearly them sensing him doesn't make sense, but that's exactly what happens. Just like Dabura not being able to sense chi but still knowing the saiyans have great power.

Everything from the tournament to the release of buu is just fucked as far as consistency goes. So this isn't an argument that ever really ends, just the majority opinion on it.
 
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