Yamucha (Android Arc) vs Ginyu (Goku's Body)

[Pocket-God]

Personally I'd say Yamcha stomps with ease, I for some reason have always put the humans > some form of Frieza.

 

[Fantastische Hure]

Personally I'd say Yamcha stomps with ease, I for some reason have always put the humans > some form of Frieza.

It's that carrot-pulling competition meng, I tell you.

...

jk

 

[Captain Cadaver]

If Super's manga is anything to go by, SSJ Galu arguably got to Pure Boo's level from just farming if using the image training as evidence.

Could pulling out radishes be the secret to Manly GAINZ?! dawg

Perhaps there's something to their link to the Chaditz.

 

[Let's Go Fearless!]

Can we use the filler stuff like Yamcha fighting the Ginyu Force in King Kai's planet? I honestly can't see Yamcha surpassing 2nd form of Frieza let alone Ginyu who has an access of Kaioken 10X which is a 1million range.

 

[Fantastische Hure]

If Super's manga is anything to go by, SSJ Galu arguably got to Pure Boo's level from just farming if using the image training as evidence.

Could pulling out radishes be the secret to Manly GAINZ?! dawg

Perhaps there's something to their link to the Chaditz.

Pure-Boo level is good and all, but plz let's not go crazy and compare that to the CHADitz.

 

[Southern Gothic]

Can we use the filler stuff like Yamcha fighting the Ginyu Force in King Kai's planet? I honestly can't see Yamcha surpassing 2nd form of Frieza let alone Ginyu who has an access of Kaioken 10X which is a 1million range.

It's my thread so I'll allow it.

 

[Void]

I think Yamcha would win pretty easily. I have him well over 900,000.

 

[Captain Cadaver]

Can we use the filler stuff like Yamcha fighting the Ginyu Force in King Kai's planet?

Considering Piccolo's GAINZ from Kaio's training, I'd say it's fair game even for canon, for the end of his training at the very least if ~50k in 6 days seems too much.

 

[p123]

Yamcha should be well into the millions. Ginyu has no chance. Yamcha was seen as a good source of power by Android 20, who is many levels above even Freeza. The humans are way more powerful than they are given credit for.

Yamcha + Krillen + Tien + Piccolo Suppressed is supposed to close the gap between 20 Post Absorption and Vegeta. Sure, 20 is wrong, but it's clear that the humans powers added to 20's own is supposed to be substantial. Anything smaller than the millions won't cut it.

 

[Captain Cadaver]

Yamcha was seen as a good source of power by Android 20, who is many levels above even Freeza.

Whilst I agree Yamcha should be pretty high, I wouldn't say this is a good piece of evidence. After all, Gero wasn't even expecting Goku to make any major gains after the Saiyan Arc, so even someone around the 10-20k area would be considered a good energy source when the most he was expecting wasn't massively above 32k.

 

[p123]

That's only one piece. The quote regarding 20's chances against Vegeta after absorbing all of the humans solidifies that the humans should be somewhat relevant for the Base Saiyans at minimum.

 

[Captain Cadaver]

I agree to that, although I do find it questionable if Yamcha would get quite the same privileges. After all, he spent far less time on Kaio's than Ten and his training routine wasn't suggested to be anything incredible enough to close the gap, so logically he should still be lagging quite far behind Tenshinhan and Kuririn if they all got comparable gains from their 3 year training. Plus, Yamcha wasn't part of Gero's statement, so he need not necessarily apply.

 

[p123]

I don't think its suggested that Tien and Krillen are like gods to Yamcha. Sure, they are stronger, but I wouldn't put them say, 5x stronger or anything. They did relatively the same training for about the same amount of time. The humans should never be this strong anyhow, but I think Yamcha more or less kept up with them.

Which means Yamcha should be able to smoke anything not named Freeza easily. Probably can take out a form or 2 of Freeza as well.

 

[Pyro]

Yamcha soundly beats Ginyu-Goku up to around Kaio-ken x8 to Kaio-ken x10. He's like a mid-tier Freeza Saga character in the Android Saga, unfortunately. Just too late to the party.

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

Whilst that is true, I'd say it'd be a stretch to assume Goku only started to make large gains towards the tail end of his training.

Doesn't have to be by the end of it. Piccolo would rose to SSJ tier pretty fast training with SSJ Goku.

It might be the case he made little to no gains as well, but since Tenshinhan makes pretty clear that Androids Goku > Sick Goku > Yardrat Goku, it's very unlikely if not outright impossible.

A fair point, but I feel if it were purely due to his personality and taking into account Ten clearly no when he's out of his league such as not bothering with the Rosat, he would've probably bothered mentioning something along the lines of "I've long since hit my limit, but I can't just sit back."

Also, less to do with our discussion but more to do with an interesting point I thought may detract from the idea of Ten being as strong as I make him out to be that may be useful in later discussions - Do you think Gero could've been factoring in the Kikoho based on his data when talking about surpassing Vegeta? It seems like a stretch, but I can imagine Gero trying to bait Ten into using it.

I don't think that's necessary. Kami told the Z Fighters they couldn't get any stronger and should just hone their skills, and Kaio said training with him is the worth of training several 1,000s of years with him.

Chapter: 211 (DBZ 17), P13.1
Context: after training under God
God: “You have all surpassed me now. There is nothing more I or Mr. Popo can teach you. Return to the lower world and refine your skills until the final confrontation.”

Chapter: 211 (DBZ 17), P2.4
Kaio: “Training here on this planet with me for 158 days…is as valuable as you training several thousand years on Earth.”

I don't think he's at his limits, he probably would've improved a lot in the Rosat. He just exhausted his gains from training on Earth. Imagine trying to get stronger training with weights of 200lbs after you've mastered lifting 350lbs. It won't make you any stronger.

I dunno. Being a Kiai, the Kikoho is a pretty wide and invisible Ki blast. #20 wouldn't be able to see it coming. He also didn't know of the Shin Kikoho as Tenshinhan made it after the Saiyan Arc, so he would be relying on the regular Kikoho here, which isn't enough of a amp to increase his power that much.

Vegeta saying that Goku better not think he's superior just because of SSJ and that he'd eventually surpass him. Sounds like a big stretch if Vegeta had already reached his limits and even if gaining SSJ, would still be below Galu.

Oh i see. I guess Vegeta's speech back on Namek was because he thought the SSJ was the pinnacle of Saiyan power or some shit.

Though i'd think he definitely hit a wall in the Androids Arc. That's what lead him to unlock SSJ.