Kaioshin vs Pui Pui

[GSM123]

Kaioshin can’t use paralysis or eye kiai. Who wins? How close is this fight? Babidi seems to consider Kaioshin a total non factor in the ship.

 

[SSJ2]

Hard to say. Kaioshin was shocked by Base Vegeta's performance but Pui Pui did nothing of note.

Imo

Base Saiyans >>> Kaioshin >> Pui Pui

 

[Yoshi]

I remember Kaboom said back in 2011-2013 that Kaioshin was afraid for the Saiyans against Pui Pui and not for himself. What do you guys think about this?

 

[SSJ2]

He would just one shot Pui Pui if that was the case.

 

[Power Level Guy]

I remember Kaboom said back in 2011-2013 that Kaioshin was afraid for the Saiyans against Pui Pui and not for himself. What do you guys think about this?

Completely irrational view per usual from him.

Freeza would have shown zero, and I mean ZERO concern if Freeza was in that ship.

 

[Power Level Guy]

Hard to say. Kaioshin was shocked by Base Vegeta's performance but Pui Pui did nothing of note.

Imo

Base Saiyans >>> Kaioshin >> Pui Pui

Pui Pui is expected to crush Shin and 3 stronger fighters than Shin at the same time.

The expectations on Pui Pui put him wayyy above Shin.

 

[SSJ2]

Does Babidi actually know how powerful Kaioshin is though? His Ki can't be felt and Babidi never saw him in action.

 

[Power Level Guy]

Does Babidi actually know how powerful Kaioshin is though? His Ki can't be felt and Babidi never saw him in action.

Why wouldn't he? He sure acts like he knows.

 

[SSJ2]

But how would he if he wasn't around back then?

 

[Kyo]

Babidi can’t know, because if he did, then he would also know that the combination of Kaioshin + one decent fighter would beat Pui Pui if Kaioshin uses his paralysis ability. That ability is so powerful that it left Gohan vulnerable against Spopo and Yamu. He doesn’t know this, and there’s no reason to believe he really knows anything except that Kaioshin is good enough to beat Bibidi.

 

[Power Level Guy]

But how would he if he wasn't around back then?

We aren’t provided that information. What we are provided is the idea that Badibi and Dabura have knowledge of Shin’s ability.

@Kyo

Shin seems to fall victim to this as well. He doesn’t know how advantageous he can be. Perhaps his paralysis only works when a fighter is off guard.

Shin is terrified of Yakon and Dabura and most likely unable to defeat either.

 

[SSJ2]

But we are also provided with them having knowledge of the Saiyans fighting capabilities, and they turned out to be dramatically incorrect. Babidi might be going off assumption to be honest.

 

[Kyo]

Perhaps his paralysis only works when a fighter is off guard.

Perhaps, but there’s plenty of opportunity for that in a 1v4, which Pui was expected to take

Shin is terrified of Yakon and Dabura and most likely unable to defeat either.

Yeah, most likely

 

[Power Level Guy]

Sure but just because Shin could be made useful with his paralysis technique doesn’t mean the power structure is changed.

Pui Pui > Expected Saiyans > Shin

Is still what the story gives us. The paralysis arts don’t enhance your power level.

@Kyo

 

[Kyo]

We were talking about what Babidi knew about Kaioshin. That’s why the paralysis ability is relevant. Babidi can’t know about it, therefore he doesn’t know everything. There’s good reason to doubt mostly everything he says. Kaioshin and Babidi both think they can handle the other btw.

That narrative would be fine if not for Pui thinking 10G would swing the fight. I can’t let that go. That’s in the story too.

 

[Power Level Guy]

We were talking about what Babidi knew about Kaioshin. That’s why the paralysis ability is relevant. Babidi can’t know about it, therefore he doesn’t know everything. There’s good reason to doubt mostly everything he says. Kaioshin and Babidi both think they can handle the other btw.

That narrative would be fine if not for Pui thinking 10G would swing the fight. I can’t let that go. That’s in the story too.

Yeah that’s when the stretch goes too far for me lol.

Because Badibi doesn’t know one thing doesn’t mean you get to throw out everything.

Badibi and Dabura make assessments on Shin’s power that don’t seem to ever be contradicted despite their knowledge being imperfect.

Hell, Shin knows about his paralysis technique yet that doesn’t seem to alter the projected battle anyway.

It’s possible we are drastically overplaying his paralysis ability and perhaps it was just a perfect scenario with Gohan. Perhaps they need to be completed distracted and so on.

Despite the 10G narrative, Pui Pui > Shin is the most consistent, most rational approach to understanding the story by far. It’s not even close.

Badibi did choke the hell out of Shin. There’s a reason they consider each other a good matchup for one another.

 

[GSM123]

To be fair, most of what Babidi said is wrong. That’s the status quo of the story. He’s pretty much Dr Gero here.

I don’t know if Kaioshin having SSJ level feats but being weaker than a guy below base level is consistent and rational. Remember, the story is more than just that one chapter in the ship.

 

[Power Level Guy]

Sure, contradicted statements are not true.

Uncontradicted statements are true though.

Guldo has amazing paralysis technique yet he’s super weak. That seems to be the case with Shin taken much, much further.

 

[GSM123]

Sure, contradicted statements are not true.

Uncontradicted statements are true though.

Guldo has amazing paralysis technique yet he’s super weak. That seems to be the case with Shin taken much, much further.

Babidi’s confidence is contradicted by Kaioshin’s perfomance vs Boo, no?

The tricky thing is, how do we distinguish Kaioshin’s paralysis technique from his brute power? Can he kill Freeza without magic?

 

[Power Level Guy]

@GreatSaiyaman123

All power statements are referring to power level. Toriyama has no idea how to create narratives that showcase a fighters abilities that have nothing to do with power level. Guldo is the only time he’s really done that right. Toriyama is a big power above all kind of guy and doesn’t take advantage of tactical advantages.

Otherwise the Kienzan + Solar Flare combo would be goated. Krillen can kill most people with that but does he ever show any confidence that he can? No, of course not.

Krillen should be able to kill Freeza and the Androids with Kienzan. But, Krillen is never suggested to be able to tussle with them on a pure speed and power level.

So just replace Krillen with Shin here and Kienzan with his psychic attacks. It’s the same scenario and they even crap their pants the same way.