Why didn't Kami use the mafusa/demon containment wave on his evil twin?

[ahill]

Same idea. Asking someone to kill you is still a form of suicide.

You are getting lost in the semantics of it. The overall point is the same. Kami has a non-interventionist stance that progressively changes due to escalating factors and the introduction of new information.

What exactly are you arguing against here? What's your overall point?

Which escalating factors? Escalating from Piccolo potentially killing everyone when he said Ten had to kill him as he "can't kill himself" to trying to kill Piccolo when Piccolo was barely conscious? Lol that's not a escalating at all...

 

[Power Level Guy]

Which escalating factors? Escalating from Piccolo potentially killing everyone when he said Ten had to kill him as he "can't kill himself" to trying to kill Piccolo when Piccolo was barely conscious? Lol that's not a escalating at all...

The ones I've already outlined in the previous posts. Remember, this starts from Daimao's birth to his death, to his rebirth. Kami's stance on how to handle each varies over time. Read my previous posts to see the progression.

 

[ahill]

The ones I've already outlined in the previous posts. Remember, this starts from Daimao's birth to his death, to his rebirth. Kami's stance on how to handle each varies over time. Read my previous posts to see the progression.

The situation would be the same. King Piccolo would have made the humans suffer. He even thanked Goku and said that unfortunately Piccolo still lives as king Piccolo laid an egg containing his essence.

The thing that'd make sense his non participation would be the DBs... He said that he wanted them to exist but that seeing the selfish wishes, they had no purpose... But he saw not everything was lost as there were well intended people that used God's creation for good intentions (Goku)...

... But if he gained a more positive outlook on keeping the DBs after seeing Goku, whereas he was pessimistic before (as he considered living mainly for the DBs), then suddenly by being more optimistic of their usage, he'd decide to kill a half dead Piccolo instead of when he was pessimistic about humans using them and their need in the world? Makes no sense.

 

[Power Level Guy]

I'm still not understanding your point. Are you making a complaint of the author's direction here?

 

[ahill]

I'm still not understanding your point. Are you making a complaint of the author's direction here?

No, I'm saying Kami could have killed Piccolo... I'm questioning the validity for why he didn't do it before, but did so later. I mean, you spoke about the escalation of a situation... Which escalation would be if we compared king Piccolo wreaking havoc 3 years earlier to a half dead Piccolo Junior who could have been locked in a jar but then and only then Kami would lay the final blow? Those moments had no escalation of danger at all...

 

[Power Level Guy]

No, I'm saying Kami could have killed Piccolo... I'm questioning the validity for why he didn't do it before, but did so later.

Because he wasn't prepared to die before and was taking more of a non-interventionist route as mentioned before.

Which escalation would be if we compared king Piccolo wreaking havoc to a half dead Piccolo Junior who could have been locked in a jar but then and only then he would lay the final blow? That moments had no escalation at all...

Perhaps the reemergence of Piccolo had allowed him to come to the realization that such a non-interventionist stance wasn't ideal.

 

[ahill]

Because he wasn't prepared to die before and was taking more of a non-interventionist route as mentioned before.


Perhaps the reemergence of Piccolo had allowed him to come to the realization that such a non-interventionist stance wasn't ideal.

So he was a coward before and grew some balls later?

 

[Power Level Guy]

So he was a coward before and grew some balls later?

Well, not a coward. A non-interventionist stance is in line with a lot of Buddhist ideology which Dragon Ball takes after. A god decided not to get involved with the fate of mortals is a perfectly acceptable norm for many genres deities.

Ever heard of "The Watcher" in Marvel? Same concept more or less. Toriyama is no doubt pulling from such a type.

Is Whis a coward? Of course not. But he has rules he abides by and one of the rules is to oversee, not get involved.

 

[ahill]

Well, not a coward. A non-interventionist stance is in line with a lot of Buddhist ideology which Dragon Ball takes after. A god decided not to get involved with the fate of mortals is a perfectly acceptable norm for many genres deities.

Ever heard of "The Watcher" in Marvel? Same concept more or less. Toriyama is no doubt pulling from such a type.

Is Whis a coward? Of course not. But he has rules he abides by and one of the rules is to oversee, not get involved.

But why do you think he decided not to intervene in the king Piccolo chaos and decided to do so later? Piccolo becoming stronger doesn't matter, because if he weren't to intervene, then whether he was weaker or stronger wouldn't matter.

He spoke about the DBs... Saying he crafted them hoping brave humans could use them for good reasons. And he said he was reconsidering their overall need when seeing how wishes were for selfish reasons, though he noted Goku changed his pessimistic attitude towards keeping the DBs as tools for human development.

When Kami said they could revive him with the DBs, Goku said the DBs would disappear if Kami died... Kami took a long pause and reflected on it. He had talked about the DBs before, too:

Then Kami took Roshi's point and said Goku had the bless to be taught by a great master...


I think it is more philosophical in the sense the DBs represent the way humans can use it, be it for bad or for good... And seeing humans releasing the devil through it may have prompted Kami to see humanity as hopeless. But being inspired by Goku and his friends braveness and pure heart, he offered the God's help for humanity... In a philosophical sense ofc.

But yeah what do you think?

 

[Power Level Guy]

…

 

[Scott]

Mafusa

Mufasa

 

[Power Level Guy]

@ahill

That’s an interesting take on things.

 

[Warmmedown]

Maybe he changed his mind about dying because he thought Goku could be the new Kami. Before that there was no candidate.

TThat doesn't explain the switch from non-interventionist to Mafuba. Did he just think humans suck (based on the DB wishes) so he didn't bother saving them? And then seeing Goku showed him the good of humans, and that there must be humans with that same good who are weak so never get the dragon balls. But then that would make him really clueless about his subjects. Also it doesn't make sense really, cuz why not intervene when he sees the bravery of Roshi, Tien etc? Or maybe he wanted to train Goku to get a chance to be closer to this great human and potential successor.

Maybe it's because he lost his patience. He had seen KP wreak havoc for years, and left it alone. Then he was glad Goku would finally beat KP. But then Jr was born and he was like "oh for eff's sake I'm sick of this".

 

[Power Level Guy]

TThat doesn't explain the switch from non-interventionist to Mafuba. Did he just think humans suck (based on the DB wishes) so he didn't bother saving them?

Well Mafuba changes things completely. It solves the problem without killing himself.

Maybe it's because he lost his patience. He had seen KP wreak havoc for years, and left it alone. Then he was glad Goku would finally beat KP. But then Jr was born and he was like "oh for eff's sake I'm sick of this".

Yep, that's how I take it. He had no idea how to handle Piccolo, he had a long depature from him and then saw how the humans handled it and said there's no way I'm going through this again.

 

[Warmmedown]

Yeh but I figure he knew about Mafuba way before using it. Wasn't he already guardian when Mutaito used it? So he's known about it for a long time. So why not drop the non-interventionist approach by utilising Mafuba when King Piccolo was released by Pilaf and started terrorising the Earth? Why only try it against Piccolo Jr? Maybe he forgot the Mafuba (maybe he can watch the technique in the Lookout's training room with the hallucinations?).
But then he sees Roshi use it and still elects to train Goku, rather than using Mafuba. He actually picks the option that's more likely to result in his death.
Or maybe he considered Mafuba higher risk than having Goku fight, because he isn't that strong and Piccolo had already become young. Maybe he believed in Goku's potential more than in his own ability to use the Mafuba against someone so strong. He thought the choices were "die when KP defeated", "try Mafuba but I'm too weak so I could have it countered on me, or it's just a waste of time because it almost definitely won't work, during that time people will die, so I should use that time to train Goku instead". Still, why the switch for Piccolo Jr? Could be the "I'm sick of this" thing. Or maybe he thought Goku is too weak. Or maybe it's the opposite: he thought "ok I can try it now, because if I fail Goku is there to fight him afterwards and no time will be lost, so might as well give it a go - nothing to lose".

 

[Power Level Guy]

Yeh but I figure he knew about Mafuba way before using it.

He learned about Mafuba from Mutaito.

So why not drop the non-interventionist approach by utilising Mafuba when King Piccolo was released by Pilaf and started terrorising the Earth?

Well it seems he had not dropped the non-interventionist route yet. I think it's during Goku's training under Popo does he resolve himself to the new approach.

But then he sees Roshi use it and still elects to train Goku, rather than using Mafuba.

Yeah, it's clear he hasn't made his decision as of yet.

 

[ahill]

Maybe he spent the 3 years to the 23rd Budokai learning the Mafuba

 

[Power Level Guy]

Maybe he spent the 3 years to the 23rd Budokai learning the Mafuba

Maybe. But yeah, the idea that ideas just pop into people's heads and they just go off of that instantly is not held up by reality.

Kami most likely had a progression of ideas about how to handle the situation over a long period of time. That's what seems most likely.

 

[Warmmedown]

Hundreds of years to use the Mafubu, but how long would it take him to fight Tom Aspinall?

 

[SSJ2]

Maybe he spent the 3 years to the 23rd Budokai learning the Mafuba

Bro Tenshinhan learned it in like 3 hours lol