Goku Vegeta and Gohan power levels in DB Daima and BoG

SIAD · Dec 30, 2024

Now that we know that Vegeta has SSJ3 in DB Daima, therefore, also in DBS. Vegeta calls Goku number 1 and Vegeta number 2 at the beginning of DBS (Arc BoG).

Would that mean that Goku would be slightly superior to Vegeta in equal ways at the start of DBS? If so, would the same happen in BoG Movie?

I have:

DB Daima:

Adult Vegeta SSJ2 = 100
Adult Vegeta SSJ3 = 400

Adult Goku SSJ2 = 104
Adult Goku SSJ3 = 416

Adult Ultimate Gohan = 384

BoG / Movie:

Vegeta SSJ2 = 100

Goku SSJ2 = 104
Goku SSJ3 = 416

Ultimate Gohan = 384

BoS (Arc BoG):

Vegeta SSJ2 = 400
Vegeta SSJ3 (Hypotecal) = 1,600

Goku SSJ2 = 416
Goku SSJ3 = 1,664

Ultimate Gohan = 384

GSM123 · Dec 30, 2024

There is a small chance Daima doesn’t connect to Super. Vegeta not using SSJ3 in Super is a big contradiction.

Animelover5487 · Dec 30, 2024

GreatSaiyaman123 said:
There is a small chance Daima doesn’t connect to Super. Vegeta not using SSJ3 in Super is a big contradiction.

I think it's a fair chance actually. And yes Vegeta not using SSJ3 in Super doesn't make sense. Why wouldn't he go into his strongest form after Beerus slapped Bulma? It was made a big deal that Vegeta got beyond Goku's SSJ3 level with just SSJ2 from his rage.

Dagon · Jan 27, 2025

Animelover5487 said:
I think it's a fair chance actually. And yes Vegeta not using SSJ3 in Super doesn't make sense. Why wouldn't he go into his strongest form after Beerus slapped Bulma? It was made a big deal that Vegeta got beyond Goku's SSJ3 level with just SSJ2 from his rage.

Maybe SSJ2 is linked to rage while SSJ3 is linked to concentration. Like branching paths. Furious mutation SSJ2 could be the rage based path.

Power Level Guy · Jan 27, 2025

GreatSaiyaman123 said:
There is a small chance Daima doesn’t connect to Super. Vegeta not using SSJ3 in Super is a big contradiction.

Yeah, BoG no longer makes sense with Vegeta having Super Saiyan 3. It changes the complete narrative. Everyone knows Goku and Vegeta are equals but Goku is a step ahead with transformations. That's the entirety of Super. Post Majin boost, Vegeta seems to be able to match Goku.

Daima giving Vegeta Super Saiyan 3 completely changes everything. For me, it's pretty clear Daima is retconning Super and is the new, true continuation.

SIAD · Jan 27, 2025

Power Level Guy said:
Yeah, BoG no longer makes sense with Vegeta having Super Saiyan 3. It changes the complete narrative. Everyone knows Goku and Vegeta are equals but Goku is a step ahead with transformations. That's the entirety of Super. Post Majin boost, Vegeta seems to be able to match Goku.

Daima giving Vegeta Super Saiyan 3 completely changes everything. For me, it's pretty clear Daima is retconning Super and is the new, true continuation.

So Goku in BoS would be a little stronger than Vegeta in equal forms? Since Vegeta also has SSJ3.

GSM123 · Jan 27, 2025

SIAD said:
So Goku in BoS would be a little stronger than Vegeta in equal forms? Since Vegeta also has SSJ3.

That can be the case since nowhere is it said that BoG Goku = BoG Vegeta. However, Vegeta not going SSJ3 vs Beerus is very weird.

SIAD · Jan 27, 2025

GreatSaiyaman123 said:
That can be the case since nowhere is it said that BoG Goku = BoG Vegeta. However, Vegeta not going SSJ3 vs Beerus is very weird.

For the same reason why Vegeta didn't go SSJBE against Broly.

Power Level Guy · Jan 27, 2025

SIAD said:
So Goku in BoS would be a little stronger than Vegeta in equal forms? Since Vegeta also has SSJ3.

I'd treat Super and Daima as separate entities for now. To try to meld it together wouldn't be the right way, at least as of now.

GSM123 · Jan 27, 2025

SIAD said:
For the same reason why Vegeta didn't go SSJBE against Broly.

Good argument, but I think it’s a bit different. Goku and Vegeta saw how outmatched they were and ran away. No point in using SSJBE or Kaioken.

Against Beerus, Vegeta lost his mind. He was driven by anger. I think he’d have to be consciously holding back to not transform.

Power Level Guy · Jan 27, 2025

GreatSaiyaman123 said:
No point in using SSJBE or Kaioken.

Goku has access to KKx20?

GreatSaiyaman123 said:
Against Beerus, Vegeta lost his mind. He was driven by anger. I think he’d have to be consciously holding back to not transform.

Agreed, trying to rationalize why Vegeta doesn't use his Super Saiyan 3 here isn't worth the effort.

GSM123 · Jan 27, 2025

Power Level Guy said:
Goku has access to KKx20?

Anime.

Power Level Guy said:
Agreed, trying to rationalize why Vegeta doesn't use his Super Saiyan 3 here isn't worth the effort.

There is a very small chance this will be explained somehow, but I'm not counting on it. Toriyama didn't let the events of Super limit him when he was writing Daima.

Power Level Guy · Jan 27, 2025

GreatSaiyaman123 said:
Anime.

Yea, but don't you try to make the anime = the manga too? But you can't for this one or you can? Oh wait, it's perfect blue = KKx20 for you, right?

GreatSaiyaman123 said:
There is a very small chance this will be explained somehow, but I'm not counting on it. Toriyama didn't let the events of Super limit him when he was writing Daima.

Yep, Super has been retconned. It's a great day.

GSM123 · Jan 27, 2025

Power Level Guy said:
Yea, but don't you try to make the anime = the manga too? But you can't for this one or you can? Oh wait, it's perfect blue = KKx20 for you, right?

Nah. I mean, I think their bases should scale to each other, but there’s always some differences.

PSSJB is more like the manga’s Kaioken x10 I’d say. Both were introduced before Kaioken x20.

Power Level Guy · Jan 27, 2025

GreatSaiyaman123 said:
Nah. I mean, I think their bases should scale to each other, but there’s always some differences.

So how strong is Goku's psuedo-Kaioken at ToP? 2x boost?

GSM123 · Jan 27, 2025

Power Level Guy said:
So how strong is Goku's psuedo-Kaioken at ToP? 2x boost?

Yeah, that’s what I have.

Base: 1
SSJ: 50
SSJ2: 200
SSJ3: 1,000
SSJG: 10,000
SSJB: 50,000
PSSJB/SSJB+KKx10: 500,000
Pseudo Kaioken/SSJB+KKx20/SSJBE: 1,000,000

What do you think?

Power Level Guy · Jan 27, 2025

GreatSaiyaman123 said:
Yeah, that’s what I have.

Base: 1
SSJ: 50
SSJ2: 200
SSJ3: 1,000
SSJG: 10,000
SSJB: 50,000
PSSJB/SSJB+KKx10: 500,000
Pseudo Kaioken/SSJB+KKx20/SSJBE: 1,000,000

What do you think?

Probably the best set I've seen.

The manga does things a lot better with emphasizing Blue and Red's huge power advantage like it should.

And yeah, based on the fight with Jiren, I didn't see a need for a huge increase for the Psuedo Kaioken thing. Or Blue Evolution.

Nice list.

GSM123 · Jan 28, 2025

Power Level Guy said:
Probably the best set I've seen.

The manga does things a lot better with emphasizing Blue and Red's huge power advantage like it should.

And yeah, based on the fight with Jiren, I didn't see a need for a huge increase for the Psuedo Kaioken thing. Or Blue Evolution.

Nice list.

I’m considering making SSJG way higher (Like 100,000x or even 1 million x base). The manga doesn’t give us any indication of it being nerfed. Sure, the manga omits the fusion line, but SSJG is the hottest shit ever. When Goku goes from 3 to God his aura engulfs the whole place and the place starts to crac (tho SSJ3 used to do the same thing back in Z so idk).

Power Level Guy · Jan 28, 2025

So how many times SSJ3 is SSJG?
Are you saying it’s ritual level all the time?

Howndo you explain the super powered up Base states Goku and Vegeta show? Purely training?

GSM123 · Jan 28, 2025

Power Level Guy said:
So how many times SSJ3 is SSJG?
Are you saying it’s ritual level all the time?

Howndo you explain the super powered up Base states Goku and Vegeta show? Purely training?

I think this is the single most confusing thing in DBS scaling, and it's the key to everything. We have no idea if base Goku is the same from BoG or if he finger clicks SSJ3 Vegetto.

The movie and anime have Goku keep fighting after he loses SSJG, but in the manga the fight ends when he loses the form. In the manga RoF happens off screen and the base Saiyans are featless so I'm tempted to say SSJG's multiplier never changed.

TL;DR I'm torn apart between these options
A) SSJG is always 10,000x (Can you read BoG imagining a mere 10x boost?)
B) SSJG is always 1,000,000x (Just imagine Vegetto Blue's PL lol)
C) Ritual SSJG is 1,000,000x and Stacked SSJG is 10,000x (Too confusing)

Goku Vegeta and Gohan power levels in DB Daima and BoG

Elite

Super Elite

High Class Warrior

Mid Class Warrior

High Class Warrior

Elite

Super Elite

Elite

High Class Warrior

Super Elite

High Class Warrior

Super Elite

High Class Warrior

Super Elite

High Class Warrior

Super Elite

High Class Warrior

Super Elite

High Class Warrior

Super Elite