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It damaged his hand pretty badly

Agreed, No, I think the Vegeta and Freeza situation is different I was just trying to make a point about effort. We have proven evidence that Freeza has used various levels.

After Kikoho... Krillen- So how much confidence do you have that you'll win? Piccolo- None! I never dreamed there was such power. They far outstrip the Saiyan who came before. Hmm. Perhaps you guys are right about Kikoho...

Exactly. He doesn't need full effort to dodge Zarbon, but he's brought to his limits to deflect the blast. Freeza used all of the power he had to kick back Vegeta's blast.

1. I increase my speed just a little… 2. I use my full effort to kick blast… One requires just a bit more effort the other requires the full reserves of Freeza’s capability. Should be a significant difference.

Masenko did no damage and nothing tops an Enraged Gohan's full power. Despite Kikoho failing, Piccolo still thought Gohan would be the one to defeat the Saiyans. So that definitely can't work.

Ok let's start with some power chains. Nappa (vs Dragon Team) >=Masenko > Kikoho > Enraged Gohan > Piccolo Piccolo > Tien > Krillen > Yamcha > Saibamen >= Raditz Now there's the whole discussion of Goku's power level vs Nappa. I think someone mentioned that Krillen made a statement implying...

These need to be different.

The issue is if he is somewhat relevant to Majin Buu and if so, which form?

I hadn't considered this option. You are right, if Freeza is adjusting on the fly like this to someone showing rivaling force, then after being bruised and embarrassed why wouldn't he do the same? Top notch work, I knew if you dug into this you could extend the logic even further just as you've...

How many would lead one to believe the powers are intended to be the same? If the Future Dabura stuff forces a contradiction, it can be used as evidence to suggest Gohan isn't as strong as we are suggesting. So is that your argument? Trunks = Gohan therefore Gohan can't be close to Buu since...

The same exact move the same exact speed the same exact ease? The authors intent is clear champ. Sure but there are limits I’d imagine

Yeah I like it

The kids have grown in power exponentially since the Buu Saga. Originally they were weaker than Piccolo in their base powers, now they should be above even Pui Pui's level of power considering Trunks is equal to his RoSaT self. They also were able to hold their own against the Cell Jrs...

Yeah, originally I liked the idea of 10x but honestly, I think I'm going to just stick with my 5x here. I think the logic is pretty sound and it is what it is. Super Saiyan 3 Goku is like Super Saiyan Goku going KKx20, sounds pretty cool, no?

Honestly, now that we have that idea that it's Base Zeta Gohan we probably have to factor in for the fusion for Gokan, Base Vegetto > Base Gokan sounds good. A rivals boost exceeding that kind of gap doesn't seem all that big of a deal. Yeah I agree. So you think this carries over to Gotenks...

The sword my guy. Well give me something feasible. Let's see what we can go with. Majin Vegeta 10 Fat Buu 40 Goku 50 Where does Gohan fit into this? 30? As a Ssj2?

It’s a possible interpretation, Kaioshin doesn’t really distinguish between Ssj2 and 1 as well. If Goku is only thinking Ssj that means Post Zeta Gohan as a Super Saiyan exceeds Evil Buu.

Vastly different feats. The key words here are “same feats”.

Rageta 1,000 Goku 500 Ultimate Gohan 300 Ssj3 Gotenks 200 Ssj2 Vegeta 100 This seems fair I’d say. My goodness. Vegetto gunna be stupidly powerful in this case.