Super Saiyan 3 boost

[FeatsofPower]

The list I posted this week has FF at 3x, same for your Rosat list. I guess FE at 5x is enough in comparison.

Yeah I’d say FE being 5x sounds about right man. 3x for FD and 5x for FE is good. Even if you went 6x maybe that’s good but more than that? Meh…

I’m not sure. Gohan just says “My arm got a lot stronger”. Is that even a real power up?

Kaioshin seems to think so.

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

Kaioshin seems to think so.

Chapter: 479 (DBZ 285), P5.2-4
Context: when the Z Sword breaks, after Gohan trained with it for a day
Gohan: “But…thanks to that, my arm strength has increased a lot. That Z Sword was incredibly heavy, after all…Perhaps this was what they meant by me obtaining the greatest power in the world.”
Kaioshin: “I-I get it…If he’s acquired that much power in his regular state, then if he becomes a Super Saiyan it will become an even more substantial power-up…! Ye-yeah! That’s it! That’s definitely the greatest power in the world…!”
Goku: “…But…Is he greater than Majin Boo?...I wonder…”

Spoiler

Just reading the text Gohan sounds sarcastic (like he's saying "Yeah, my arm is stronger, big deal"), but Viz and the art he looks dead serious about it. Yeah, it was a good training and he's at least above Goku who can barely swing the sword.

The big deal here is Goku's line. Does he say "dunno" because they're close, or because he doesn't know how strong SSJ/2 Gohan is? Can you look at a Base Saiyan and tell how strong their transformed form is?

DBS manga does have Future Trunks struggling with Future Dabra, but different people rarely get the same gains from the same training (Compare Goku's Kaio training to Piccolo's) so I think we can ignore that.

 

[Natasha Romanoff]

The big deal here is Goku's line. Does he say "dunno" because they're close, or because he doesn't know how strong SSJ/2 Gohan is? Can you look at a Base Saiyan and tell how strong their transformed form is?

Like Goku when he proclaimed himself superior to Vegeta:

Spoiler

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

Like Goku when he proclaimed himself superior to Vegeta:

Maybe? He was doing the same training as Vegeta, so he has an idea of where Vegeta should peak and that he has room for growth if he trains better.

 

[Natasha Romanoff]

Maybe? He was doing the same training as Vegeta, so he has an idea of where Vegeta should peak and that he has room for growth if he trains better.

Goku observed that he took less than 1 day using that sword:

Spoiler

Goku then stated that he doesn't believe he became stronger than Buu which turned out to be right in his thought:

Spoiler

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

Goku then stated that he doesn't believe he became stronger than Buu which turned out to be right in his thought:

Problem is, this translation is inaccurate. Goku says he doesn’t know who’s stronger.

 

[FeatsofPower]

Kaioshin: “I-I get it…If he’s acquired that much power in his regular state, then if he becomes a Super Saiyan it will become an even more substantial power-up…! Ye-yeah! That’s it! That’s definitely the greatest power in the world…!”

This right here

 

[FeatsofPower]

Just reading the text Gohan sounds sarcastic (like he's saying "Yeah, my arm is stronger, big deal"), but Viz and the art he looks dead serious about it. Yeah, it was a good training and he's at least above Goku who can barely swing the sword.

Inaccurate interpretation.

The big deal here is Goku's line. Does he say "dunno" because they're close, or because he doesn't know how strong SSJ/2 Gohan is? Can you look at a Base Saiyan and tell how strong their transformed form is?

Kaioshin thinks Majin Vegeta has no chance and that Gohan has a chance. Goku doesn’t completely shut him down.

I think the I don’t know is him factoring in Ssj2 and rage

DBS manga does have Future Trunks struggling with Future Dabra, but different people rarely get the same gains from the same training (Compare Goku's Kaio training to Piccolo's) so I think we can ignore that.

Same training same power same feat.

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

Same training same power same feat.

So Saiyan Saga humans = 23TB Goku?

Kaioshin thinks Majin Vegeta has no chance and that Gohan has a chance. Goku doesn’t completely shut him down.

I think the I don’t know is him factoring in Ssj2 and rage

You’re saying Kaioshin is sure a SSJ boost is enough, but Goku doesn’t know if SSJ2 is enough?

 

[FeatsofPower]

So Saiyan Saga humans = 23TB Goku?

Vastly different feats. The key words here are “same feats”.

 

[FeatsofPower]

You’re saying Kaioshin is sure a SSJ boost is enough, but Goku doesn’t know if SSJ2 is enough?

It’s a possible interpretation, Kaioshin doesn’t really distinguish between Ssj2 and 1 as well.

If Goku is only thinking Ssj that means Post Zeta Gohan as a Super Saiyan exceeds Evil Buu.

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

Vastly different feats. The key words here are “same feats”.

Gohan’s feats = None
Trunks’ feats = Struggling with Dabra

It’s a possible interpretation, Kaioshin doesn’t really distinguish between Ssj2 and 1 as well.

If Goku is only thinking Ssj that means Post Zeta Gohan as a Super Saiyan exceeds Evil Buu.

I like it, but with that we’re back to step zero because rage boosts can be anything. Vegeta said as much in the Babidi Saga. Gohan > Goku is all we got.

 

[FeatsofPower]

Gohan’s feats = None
Trunks’ feats = Struggling with Dabra

The sword my guy.

I like it, but with that we’re back to step zero because rage boosts can be anything. Vegeta said as much in the Babidi Saga. Gohan > Goku is all we got.

Well give me something feasible. Let's see what we can go with.

Majin Vegeta 10
Fat Buu 40
Goku 50

Where does Gohan fit into this? 30? As a Ssj2?

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

The sword my guy.

Eh the sword is kinda like gravity training. You just have to get used to the weight.

Well give me something feasible. Let's see what we can go with.

Majin Vegeta 10
Fat Buu 40
Goku 50

Where does Gohan fit into this? 30? As a Ssj2?

30 is actually alright for calm SSJ2 if Goku is factoring a rage boost to maybe close the gap.

I mean this is what’s implied right? That it takes a huge reach just for Gohan to stand a chance?

 

[FeatsofPower]

Eh the sword is kinda like gravity training. You just have to get used to the weight.

The same exact move the same exact speed the same exact ease? The authors intent is clear champ.

I mean this is what’s implied right? That it takes a huge reach just for Gohan to stand a chance?

Sure but there are limits I’d imagine

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

The same exact move the same exact speed the same exact ease? The authors intent is clear champ.

Bro have you seen how many times Toyotaro replicates poses and choreographies?

You know this takes down our whole logic right? Even if Future Dabra > Present Dabra (which isn’t really implied), Future Dabra is nowhere near Boo.

 

[FeatsofPower]

Bro have you seen how many times Toyotaro replicates poses and choreographies?

How many would lead one to believe the powers are intended to be the same?

You know this takes down our whole logic right? Even if Future Dabra > Present Dabra (which isn’t really implied), Future Dabra is nowhere near Boo.

If the Future Dabura stuff forces a contradiction, it can be used as evidence to suggest Gohan isn't as strong as we are suggesting.

So is that your argument? Trunks = Gohan therefore Gohan can't be close to Buu since that's only Future Dabura level?

 

[SSJ2]

The Z Sword is about as straightforward as it gets.

Gohan initially needs Super Saiyan to merely pull out the sword. He was hardly able to hold it while in Base. He hands the sword to Kibito which demonstrates that power is what determines if you can wield the sword or not. When Goku arrives he is also barely able to hold it while in Base but is able to make some weak swings with it. Gohan then trains with the sword and becomes exceptionally proficient with it. If he wasn't meant to be stronger than Goku then he would still be struggling to swing the sword around in Base.

 

[FeatsofPower]

The Z Sword is about as straightforward as it gets.

Gohan initially needs Super Saiyan to merely pull out the sword. He was hardly able to hold it while in Base. He hands the sword to Kibito which demonstrates that power is what determines if you can wield the sword or not. When Goku arrives he is also barely able to hold it while in Base but is able to make some weak swings with it. Gohan then trains with the sword and becomes exceptionally proficient with it. If he wasn't meant to be stronger than Goku then he would still be struggling to swing the sword around in Base.

The issue is if he is somewhat relevant to Majin Buu and if so, which form?

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

Yeah, big deal here is whether Goku's "dunno" is because they're close or because Goku flat out doesn't know Gohan's true peak yet.

I wouldn't mind ignoring DBS altogether here. Toyotaro tried to solve this stuff but ended up complicating it. Kaioshin only thinks Gohan can pull the Z Sword because he fought Dabra, but Trunks pulled the Z Sword, trained with it and got stomped?

I've even seen some people argue SSJ Trunks is close to Dabra because of this. I mean, it's a clear reference to Gohan breaking Dabra's sword right?

Spoiler

We don't see Trunks breaking the sword, but it's just gone next page. This man is so fucking incompetent he traced the Boo Saga pannel just to fill the page and then completely forgot about it.