Search results

In the Saiyan and Freeza arcs, absolutely. That's how it's written.

Yes, yes, and maybe.

Ah alright. Well, Goku is counting on Gohan's rage to beat Cell; he changes his tune when Piccolo makes him realize that it probably won't work that way. This purported "true power" is what's meant to beat Cell. It's not like the fight state had changed before and after these statements...

I don't see any issue with Raditz being 3x stronger than Goku and Piccolo.

Like what? The only one I can think of -- and it's also only an "error" because of the implications it has on pre-Raditz events -- is KHH amplification being 2.22x. He envisioned it in that fight as having that amp. It's there, it's done. It doesn't matter that he doesn't know the future, he's...

No no, I meant that at "true speed level" he uses his full speed (at his current level of suppression) to catch Gohan, but still pulls his punches.

I don't know. Maybe he didn't know exactly until Goku hit him. Maybe it was just for a bit of insurance. My hands are tied because he says he'll go all-out, which usually means full power. But if it doesn't mean that, then it must mean all-out "at my current level," which is what I'm going with...

It isn't arbitrary at all. Scouters were introduced in one arc without regard for how they affect the previous arcs. The previous arcs don't function with scouters. The later ones obviously do, by design.

No shit. Colloquially, you understand what I'm saying.

You've seen my old DB lists where I'd ignore the BoZ numbers. I'm with you on that not working. But if we're talking strictly DBZ scaling, the Goku/Piccolo levels matter. BoZ numbers suck because scouters didn't take into account pre-Z, but Goku and Piccolo are scaled relative to Raditz...

I don’t care lol. It doesn’t work, I agree.

The BoZ levels suck, I agree. My only point of contention is if you intend to scale the rest of DBZ’s levels, Goku’s and Piccolo’s against Raditz can’t be ignored. That’s where DBZ’s scaling starts.

The Freeza situation is different. Freeza says he increased his speed but nothing in the line suggests that he doesn't increase anything else -- "I get just a little serious and raise my speed, and it seems that you can’t keep up with me." He also singles out his speed because all he did in his...

I think that's small too, although not to the same degree because you have a conflicting statement there with Vegeta calling Goku stronger than Gohan outright.

There's no reason for it not to be minuscule imo.

Why? You made this part up and I've never seen a single argument for it that doesn't boil down to "because it should be that way." Is it because Vegeta says that the KHH (the Kaioken KHH, mind) is "like" his own blast?

Yes, that’s what I said.

I’ll take a spin on Q’s take and say that the bear hug is a different level of power, and that’s probably when he goes “all-out” in strength. Goku - 80 Gohan - 110 Cell - 115 ~ vs Goku - 90 Cell is initially 90/90 (strength/speed) against Gohan, then 90/115, then 115/115.

The Viz line leaves more room for interpretation, but the Strength Checker's wording of "how about I go all-out, in speed at least?" clearly indicates that he's singling out his speed from his power. If he's going all out "in speed, at least" then there's some aspect(s) in which he's not going...

It’s something like, Cell’s a 100 to Goku’s 80 but he’s holding back and using 90. Against Gohan he keeps fighting at 90 until he’s forced to use 100 speed (going “all out” in speed “at least”).