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If they just kept on teleporting around and taking dragon balls, then how would they encounter Baby himself? They'd just dip the moment they got the dragon ball. If Goku never fought against Baby then he would never even learn of how to get SS4. Bulma herself would never work on the bruits wave...

Super 17 never happens. The Baby arc needed to happen for the events to align to bring it to life. Shadow Dragons might happen and if they do and if Goku doesn't have SS4, the universe ends up destroyed.

You're right, Eis Shenron V Goku is also a much better fight than Mastered Ultra instinct Goku. Syn Shenron V Goku is just icing on the cake of an excellently well animated episode. You're right there, Kefla's Ki spamming was far more gratuitous than anything seen in GT. Considering the fight...

You're ignoring the first episode of Syn Vs Goku which involved massive battling. Beautiful art. Collapsing sky scrapers, changing locations. The whole overall battle of Syn V Goku is a mixed bag because some episodes had to be sacrificed in order for other (more important ones) to look amazing...

Which is probably why Goku V Jiren is by far the inferior fight overall. Syn Shenron V Galu is far and above better than it, in terms of setting, feeling of power, art and animation. Everything except the flashy looking aura that in all honesty is the reason why people are awed by Supers...

MUI Goku V Jiren blatantly did reuse scenes from UI Goku V Jiren. It also did use animation saving techniques like not focusing on the battle, using the smears to show massive brawl rushes. Cut away from the fighting to show reactions. Honestly I don't know why you're using MUI Goku V Jiren as...

MUI Goku V Jiren is literally just reused animation, massive auras that obscure and make the battles harder to see, panning out and showing a bunch of smears so they can give the impression of a brawl. But never having to animate it. And to be completely blunt Supers art quality at its best is...

Be careful for what you wish for :troll

I think Hit wins, I don't think SSJ Goku Black was that powerful.

:shc

Watch G(OD)T(IME) instead

:shc

:shc

I had the impression that the entire crux of the argument was predicated on discussing the animation/art quality of the battles. I was taken by surprise seeing you mention story telling problems, especially considering Super is far more egregious of the things that GT does. But I can now tell...

My entire argument entirely presides on the art and animation of all these fights. And comparing it to Super. Thats why I don't know why you're even bringing up the fan fic here, GT has big story problems, but this conversation doesn't concern itself with them. The theme park and clock were...

The Baby arc ironically enough has some of the iffiest looking moments on a more consistent basis. The art and animation for Uub V Baby is still as good/better than what Super has to offer, despite being an almost totally unimportant fight for a character who serves no purpose after it. Which...

Did we watch the same series? GTs fight scenes were absolutely nuts with what Toei did, Baby's assimilation of Earth and those fights, Goku V Baby, Uub V Baby, Super 17 V Goku. Goku Vs Eis Shenron and Nuova Shenron. As well as the massive brawl with Omega Shenron. GT doesn't have a lot of big...

ok

Supers fight scenes are terrible for 99% of the series. The animation for the entire series is usually stiff, lifeless and about as well animated as a clip show. The point where the series gets some good fights scenes is the Future Trunks arc (the brief clip of Goku and Trunks V Zamasu and Goku...