10% of SSJB

ahill1

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So when Vegeta transformed in sequence in the U6 arc, Whis informed that Vegeta couldn't output even a tenth of the form's power.

But would that be a tenth of the power Goku could muster after mastering the SSJB (vs Zamasu)? Or a tenth compared to when a Saiyan JUST transforms in SSB? Because it's strange that Goku and Vegeta would suddenly have their powers taking a huge dip while in seconds in the state. That'd make it a tenth of a tenth or some shit.
 

SSJ2

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It was 10% of his power at that time.
 

ahill1

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Not in regards to the form's full power then, manifested when they shut their aura?
 

SSJ2

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CSSJB? I highly doubt it. They didn't even have that level during U6 so I'm not sure how Whis would know of it.
 

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So when Vegeta transformed in sequence in the U6 arc, Whis informed that Vegeta couldn't output even a tenth of the form's power.

But would that be a tenth of the power Goku could muster after mastering the SSJB (vs Zamasu)? Or a tenth compared to when a Saiyan JUST transforms in SSB? Because it's strange that Goku and Vegeta would suddenly have their powers taking a huge dip while in seconds in the state. That'd make it a tenth of a tenth or some shit.
It would be a tenth of the power that Goku could muster against Zamasu. Though obviously weaker as they have grown stronger by then.
 

ahill1

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That could be it. But then, would what make sense scaling wise? Because then a SSJ would be already closing in on the power Goku used to fight to a draw against Merged Zamasu?
 

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That could be it. But then, would what make sense scaling wise? Because then a SSJ would be already closing in on the power Goku used to fight to a draw against Merged Zamasu?
Didn't base Goku BTFO Sangabo in the Moro arc?
 

ahill1

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Didn't base Goku BTFO Sangabo in the Moro arc?
I think so, I just find it hard to represent it all in numbers.

For one side, it wouldn't make that much sense if it wasn't in reference to the CSSJB power, as Goku still kept in SSJB for a little while before shutting its aura and showcasing the CSSJ. On the other hand, things would be extremely tight if Goku's SSJ state was already somewhat approaching 10% of the power Goku used vs Merged Zamasu.
 

SSJ2

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CSSJB > SSJB full power. Blue's maximum power as seen in bursts was far inferior to CSSJB. The quote is about regular Blue.
 

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I think so, I just find it hard to represent it all in numbers.

For one side, it wouldn't make that much sense if it wasn't in reference to the CSSJB power, as Goku still kept in SSJB for a little while before shutting its aura and showcasing the CSSJ. On the other hand, things would be extremely tight if Goku's SSJ state was already somewhat approaching 10% of the power Goku used vs Merged Zamasu.
CSSJB is story wise meant to be Blue's full power
 

ahill1

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I don't know if there's a difference, power-wise, between CSSJB and a Blue that has just transformed. The dialogue during the sequence in which Goku applies this evolved version of Blue doesn't give the impression that he went beyond Blue's power... merely that he's using its full power at a constant, which wasn't possible before. Vegeta even says that we're witnessing now Blue at its full power... completely fixating on the drawbacks the form imposed as it ate energy into a heightened rate; as opposed to increasing the form by thrusting more power into it, which is what Vegeta does later in the ToP.
 

SSJ2

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He never had those drawbacks when he was using it in bursts and he was clearly weaker. He was at best stronger than SSJR Black. CSSJB Goku was on par with Merged Zamasu. It's pretty clear.
 
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Pocket-Gog~

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He never had those drawbacks when he was using it in bursts and he was clearly weaker. He was at best stronger than SSJR Black. CSSJB Goku was on par with Merged Zamasu. It's pretty clear.
Merged Zamasu was also only ever SSJB tier. Pretty much all fusions in dbs with the exception of Goku and Bejita are pathetic jobbers
 

ahill1

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He never had those drawbacks when he was using it in bursts and he was clearly weaker. He was at best stronger than SSJR Black. CSSJB Goku was on par with Merged Zamasu. It's pretty clear.
Vegeta would have highlighted an increase in power if that were the case then. All he stated is that Goku is using the Blue power in a constant 100%, which seems to picture that Goku was merely producing the best the Blue state could offer, not gaining a power boost.

Vegeta was likely losing power when quickly switching between God and Blue. Maybe not in the 1st hit, but his hits were arguably generating less power. Efficient in conserving power though it was (better than normally), it still wasn't the same as shutting the aura in their bodies.
 

SSJ2

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Goku literally states that Vegeta wasn't losing any power.

Ch. 22, pg. 25.1-3
Context:
Goku and Trunks continue to observe Vegeta fight Goku Black
Trunks: “That’s amazing…! How could he possibly…”
Goku: “He’s storing the power of Blue until the right time and lets it explode when he needs it.”
Kaioshin: “Is that the same thing you did back when fighting Hit?”
Goku: “Yeah, but in my case, I could only go as far as making the switch once while Vegeta is able to repeat it over and over again. Furthermore, his power isn’t decreasing. That just shows how hard he’s trained.”

Even so, the notion of CSSJB = Blue Bursts doesn't make much sense. Vegeta was stronger than SSJR Black, but not by so much that he could one shot him or overwhelm him immediately. Merged Zamasu then made huge gains from his fusion as he stated himself. Do you really think he would be acting this way if he merely became as strong as the level Vegeta used to tool him just prior?

Screenshot 2021-09-05 at 09-06-56 VIZ Read a Free Preview of Dragon Ball Super, Vol 4.png Screenshot 2021-09-05 at 09-07-29 VIZ Read a Free Preview of Dragon Ball Super, Vol 4.png

No way in hell.
 

Pocket-Gog~

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Goku literally states that Vegeta wasn't losing any power.

Ch. 22, pg. 25.1-3
Context:
Goku and Trunks continue to observe Vegeta fight Goku Black
Trunks: “That’s amazing…! How could he possibly…”
Goku: “He’s storing the power of Blue until the right time and lets it explode when he needs it.”
Kaioshin: “Is that the same thing you did back when fighting Hit?”
Goku: “Yeah, but in my case, I could only go as far as making the switch once while Vegeta is able to repeat it over and over again. Furthermore, his power isn’t decreasing. That just shows how hard he’s trained.”

Even so, the notion of CSSJB = Blue Bursts doesn't make much sense. Vegeta was stronger than SSJR Black, but not by so much that he could one shot him or overwhelm him immediately.
I don't know what to say to you, the notion that CSSJB = the full power of SSJB, is literally the factual reason why its so strong. There's no other explanation given to its strength. If you want to argue that SSJG - SSJB combo would just be as strong, you'd be right. But Toyo's dog shit at writing his own story.
0024-036.png

Merged Zamasu then made huge gains from his fusion as he stated himself. Do you really think he would be acting this way if he merely became as strong as the level Vegeta used to tool him just prior?

View attachment 764 View attachment 765

No way in hell.

Merged Zamasu isn't in anyway massively stronger than Goku Black, you can make that argument but the actual fight shows that even a tired Super Saiyan Blue with hardly any energy is capable of piercing this idiot. His epic performance was against two tired Super Saiyan Blues running out of energy, impressive.
0023-011.png
 

SSJ2

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don't know what to say to you, the notion that CSSJB = the full power of SSJB, is literally the factual reason why its so strong. There's no other explanation given to its strength. If you want to argue that SSJG - SSJB combo would just be as strong, you'd be right. But Toyo's dog shit at writing his own story.
No, it wouldn't be right. They are two completely different things. CSSJB is differentiated by sealing the aura and therefore the entire power of Blue within the body. Using Blue in bursts does not seal the aura, therefore it is not sealing away all of Blue's power. At best the burst form of SSJB is a more efficient version that takes advantage of more of its power without losing much stamina. Compare the statements:

Ch. 22, pg. 25.1-3
Context:
Goku and Trunks continue to observe Vegeta fight Goku Black
Trunks: “That’s amazing…! How could he possibly…”
Goku: “He’s storing the power of Blue until the right time and lets it explode when he needs it.”
Kaioshin: “Is that the same thing you did back when fighting Hit?”
Goku: “Yeah, but in my case, I could only go as far as making the switch once while Vegeta is able to repeat it over and over again. Furthermore, his power isn’t decreasing. That just shows how hard he’s trained.”

Ch. 24, pg. 36.1-6
Context:
Goku and Zamasu appear to be fighting evenly
Trunks: “Goku… This is amazing… He’s fighting equally with Zamasu…!”
Vegeta: “Kakarrot… He managed to seal the Blue’s overflowing power within his body.”
Trunks: “What…?”
Vegeta: “Blue’s weakness is that its full power lasts only for a short while. He faced that weakness and overcame it.”
Trunks: “So that means right now, Goku is…”
Vegeta: “Goku is continuously fighting at 100 percent. Finally, he has completed Super Saiyan Blue.”

Storing its power and sealing its power are two completely different things. How I view it is that Blue Bursts is the maximum you can get out of Blue without sealing the aura away.
Merged Zamasu isn't in anyway massively stronger than Goku Black, you can make that argument but the actual fight shows that even a tired Super Saiyan Blue with hardly any energy is capable of piercing this idiot. His epic performance was against two tired Super Saiyan Blues running out of energy, impressive.
Vegeta wasn't tired at the beginning of the fight. He was briefly knocked out of SSJG but aside from that had taken no damage. He was immediately destroyed when he used Blue. The only reason why Goku's attack pierced Zamasu is exactly as you said, because he's an idiot. He was so arrogant that he didn't even put up a defense against it. There's no reason to read further into it than that.

I think it's telling that Vegeta didn't even attempt to use SSJB in bursts against MZ. He was able to get away with using SSJG against a far stronger opponent in SSJR Black, but MZ was far too strong to make it work. If his Blue power was really on par with Zamasu there's no reason why he wouldn't give it a shot. At least he'd be able to manage something instead of getting one shotted out of Blue while fresh:

eOJBmYg.png

Vegeta was also willing to put aside his pride and fuse with Goku to get the upper hand on him. They could have both taken half of a senzu bean and taken him down easily if he was only Blue level, but Vegeta knew fusing was the only option worth trying.

And finally this:

Ch. 27, pg. 15.6-7
Context:
Beerus observing Vegeta’s training
Beerus: “What’s up with him? He’s more into this than usual.”
Oracle Fish: “It must be because Son Goku was stronger than him during the battle with Zamasu.
Beerus: “Ah… It’s a stupid rivalry--not worth my time.”

Goku was stronger despite being equal?
 
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Pocket-Gog~

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No, it wouldn't be right. They are two completely different things. CSSJB is differentiated by sealing the aura and therefore the entire power of Blue within the body.
We're in agreement then, I don't view CSSJB as being a true power up, like SSJ2 or anything like that. Instead I just see it as the true power of SSJB, even though Toyo's incredibly awful at conveying that.
 

Pyro

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The U6 tournament doesn't work with the Black fight at all if you use 10% as Blue's total overall power, not what they're capable of actually using in the moment.

PSSB: 100
~ normal use due to instant drainage: 50
~~ 10% of that: 5

Something dumb like that, even though instantly losing half your power is stupid as fuck.
 
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