#17 and #18 weren't made stronger?

[Future Warrior]

What if in the present timeline, #17 and #18 were as strong as they were originally supposed to be as in Trunks' timeline?

 

[SSJ2]

I think the initial battle would have gone more or less the same. 18 would have been roughly equal to Vegeta, so they would have had an extended fight that was closely contested. Vegeta would have eventually been worn down due to stamina issues while 18 remained fresh. Trunks would then step in and not be able to manage much, especially if 17 gets involved. Piccolo and Tenshinhan would have still been fodder, so they'd have been disposed of quickly. I think even if the entire Z Senshi who was present at the fight ganged up from the beginning, they still would have lost.

So after surviving that, Piccolo would still end up fusing with Kami and would eventually take on the Androids himself. Only now, Piccolo would have been strong enough to dispose of both of them together. I guess it would depend on how quickly Piccolo was able to take them out, or if he would choose to kill them at all. If they managed to last long enough for Cell to arrive, the outcome of the manga would have remained the same - with Cell absorbing the Androids. If Piccolo destroyed them, he'd likely be killed by Cell on the spot. The moment Vegeta and Trunks exit the RoSaT, Cell would be destroyed.

Galu and Gohan would still have entered the RoSaT and become as strong as their Cell Games counterparts, though Gohan would have never unlocked SSJ2, and Goku wouldn't end up dying. Vegeta may go back to the RoSaT for the sake of trying to catch Galu, so he'd end up at his Cell Games level at best.

A lot would depend on how the 7 year gap is utilized from here. Would Gohan remain a fighter with his father alive? Would the group discover SSJ2 without having seen Gohan use it during the Cell Games? Maybe, but doubtful imo. Even if they did, there is no way that Galu would have unlocked SSJ3. The group would have either been killed by Dabra (if he is SSJ2 level), or killed by Boo.

 

[Captain Cadaver]

I'd agree completely with SSJ2 up until the part about the Boo Arc. I'd say Goku and Vegeta would've definitely achieved SS2 through their training when considering Vegeta achieved it despite not aiming for Gohan as a rival and focusing purely on improving himself. If anything, Vegeta would probably achieve it even sooner with Goku acting as a constant motivator. That said, Goku or Vegeta deal with Dabura instead of Gohan due to either him not unlocking SS2 or Goku being more aware of Gohan's rustiness from the start (depending on which form you believe Gohan used), with Majin Vegeta not happening due to the lack of Other World training probably making Goku and Vegeta about equals. Babidi's plans are foiled and Goku and Vegeta have a match to decide their rivalry. How Super changes may depend on who wins, events between the two not really being much different if Goku wins, whereas Vegeta winning may make his Super self more in line with his end of Boo Arc/End of Z personality in having moved on from their rivalry.
In either case, the main plot events of Super play out similarly for the most part, seeing as how I doubt getting his pudding would be enough to completely stop Beerus' pressing on the SSG matter. Boo's place in the Universe 6 tournament gets filled perhaps by Goten/Trunks (though they'd be too out of their league to do anything of worth) and the Future Trunks Arc is near enough unchanged. The ToP is where major changes would occur as without #17 and #18 or Gohan's buffs through the Kaioshin ritual, U7's team would be vastly weaker and probably have to resort to having Yamcha and Chaozu fill spots. Ultimately, there'd be too much stacked against them to overcome Jiren without #17's assistance and with Gohan not being capable of fighting against Kefla. Even if they somehow overcome Jiren through sheer plot armour, the lack of Boo to assist against Moro means Goku and Vegeta probably die on Namek or at most Goku fails to stop Planet Moro due to not being given Oob's God Ki.

 

[Future Warrior]

Vegeta and co. really still wouldn't be able to overcome the androids? I'm pretty sure even Trunks alone was able to fight on par with them individually, yet he got completely destroyed by only one of them in a single hit in the present timeline.

 

[Captain Cadaver]

Trunks was also amazed at Vegeta's ability to fight evenly with #18 and didn't note #18's movements to be any less than what he was used to, so it's safe to say Trunks was still inferior to his timeline's version of #18 to some degree even if he could put up a fight (backed up by #18 later being confident in killing him on her own upon his return to the future). With #17 being stronger than her by some degree, I really don't see if going any way beyond Vegeta eventually faltering due to his inferior stamina and #17 lasting long enough for his sister to help him beat both Trunks and Piccolo.

 

[SSJ2]

I think they would have a good battle but ultimately they don't have the means to beat two infinite energy beings. Future 18 was implied to be equal to SSJ Vegeta in this quote:

Chapter: 353 (DBZ 159), P12.3-6
Trunks: “Am-amazing! I hadn’t realized that father was this strong…! To think that he’s able to fight on par with that outrageous android…!”
Piccolo: “Vegeta’s going to be killed…[ ] Watch…Bit by bit, the android is starting to push him back. It’s because his enemy’s power never falls at all, while Vegeta’s stamina falls the more he moves.”

This was before Trunks knew these Androids were different than the ones he had faced. Considering this, we also know that 17 is moderately stronger than 18. While Vegeta might be able to stalemate 18 for a while, I can't see Trunks and Piccolo being able to take down 17. He's stronger than Vegeta, and we know that Vegeta considered Trunks to be trash. Piccolo isn't at a level where he can make a significant difference against someone on Vegeta's tier.

 

[Future Warrior]

Well Trunks seemed to think that blast he shot at both of them back at Gero's lab would have done more than it did, so there was already evidence for him that something was a bit different from his versions.

I mean, even present #17 thought that #18 would be overwhelmed if they all ganged up on her. Maybe Vegeta himself wouldn't be enough, but I think they could possibly at least finish one of them if Trunks and Piccolo decide to step in.

Honestly, it seems like the purpose of the ''androids being stronger than supposed to'' was to have an answer to the Z Warriors preparing 3 years for the threat this time. They could have possibly won if they were exactly the same as originally. Trunks also considered the idea of bringing Goku to his timeline to deal with the threat himself, which is worth noting.

 

[SSJ2]

Stupid me. I completely forgot that Trunks answers this thread for us, and on several occasions.

Chapter: 351 (DBZ 157), P7.1
Trunks: “We absolutely can’t win unless we have Goku’s help and everyone fights together!”

Spoiler

Trunks knew it would be futile even prior to blasting the androids. Even at that, his goal of that attack was to stop 16 from being activated, not to destroy the Androids.

 

[Future Warrior]

Dude, that proves my point that they wouldn’t have lost if it wasn’t for their power increase. At the time Trunks didn’t know that Vegeta had already surpassed Goku.

 

[SSJ2]

That's not true.

Spoiler

Trunks was aware of Goku's power and was still insistent that Vegeta wait until he was healthy. I must be missing your point, because Trunks seems pretty straightforward in telling the audience that the group has no chance.

 

[Future Warrior]

Yes, you're not getting my point. Trunks' says that the group has no chance in killing both androids unless Goku comes in the fray, but at this point Trunks underestimated Vegeta who had already surpassed Goku at this point. He's basing this assertion on the fact that Vegeta is weaker than Goku which means he's less capable of fighting against them, which is wrong.

You agree that Trunks is aware of the power of SSJ Goku, correct? So he believes he's strong enough to turn the tables against both androids provided he has backup with the rest of the Z Fighters. If Vegeta is even stronger than that, and the rest of the group tries to assist him, then I don't see how they would have lost against the future androids. And even if they did lose against them, once Goku had gotten better from the heart virus then they would have just simply all ganged up on them and won, which Trunks' believes is possible. They don't need the RoSaT or Kamiccolo.

Like I said, it's implied that even Present #18 isn't able to fight all of them at once. If #17 didn't back her up then she would have been quickly overwhelmed.

Also, about Trunks' blast. He was clearly surprised that they were completely undamaged by his blast, so it should be obvious at that point that something is different.

 

[Hector]

I think the team has a decent chance, if Piccolo/Trunks find a way to defeat one Android quickly (not impossible) and then help Vegeta against the other. Anyway, two scenarios:

1. The Z Fighters lose.
Piccolo fuses with Kami. When he fights Seventeen later, he gains the upper hand. Not wanting him to kill Seventeen, Sixteen interferes and stomps him without killing him. Cell appears and everything happens as we know.

2. The Z Fighters win.
Sixteen interferes and stomps them all. Then the Androids leave. Having seen how strong Sixteen is, Piccolo does not fight him again, not even after fusing with Kami. Nevertheless, knowing that Sixteen won't kill anyone, when the Androids arrive at Kame House, Kamiccolo proposes to them to wait and Goku will willingly show up later. Seventeen has objections, but Sixteen agrees. Cell appears and absorbs them.

 

[SSJ2]

Yes, you're not getting my point. Trunks' says that the group has no chance in killing both androids unless Goku comes in the fray, but at this point Trunks underestimated Vegeta who had already surpassed Goku at this point. He's basing this assertion on the fact that Vegeta is weaker than Goku which means he's less capable of fighting against them, which is wrong.

You agree that Trunks is aware of the power of SSJ Goku, correct? So he believes he's strong enough to turn the tables against both androids provided he has backup with the rest of the Z Fighters. If Vegeta is even stronger than that, and the rest of the group tries to assist him, then I don't see how they would have lost against the future androids. And even if they did lose against them, once Goku had gotten better from the heart virus then they would have just simply all ganged up on them and won, which Trunks' believes is possible. They don't need the RoSaT or Kamiccolo.

Like I said, it's implied that even Present #18 isn't able to fight all of them at once. If #17 didn't back her up then she would have been quickly overwhelmed.

Also, about Trunks' blast. He was clearly surprised that they were completely undamaged by his blast, so it should be obvious at that point that something is different.

Ah, I get your point now, my bad. Even factoring in Trunks underestimating Vegeta, I still think the team would lose. Realistically, how much could Trunks have been underestimating Vegeta?

Trunks seemed to be under the impression that he, Goku and Vegeta were all on the same tier and had already sensed Super Saiyan Vegeta's resting ki. I'd say he's not far off on this assumption, though Vegeta proved to be better than his estimations. Even after learning that Vegeta was stronger than Goku, he still wanted nothing to do with the Androids. For the sake of making it easier to explain, here are some numbers from Trunks' perspective:

Future 18: 630
Future 17: 690

SSJ Trunks: 575
SSJ Goku (expected): 575
SSJ Vegeta (expected): 575
SSJ Vegeta (after Piccolo's statement): 590
SSJ Vegeta (actual): 630

So with his expectations he wanted to wait for Goku. I don't see why things would change after seeing Vegeta moderately stronger than the expectations. What feasible way would there be for the group to win without Goku? If they lose and manage to survive, they may be able to beat them once Goku had recovered, but how would they find the Androids? The whole scenario would play out identical to the manga, although it would be questionable whether the RoSaT would still be used. Either way, when the Androids arrive at Muten Roshi's island, Cell would still be on the way shortly after. If the group never used the RoSaT they would die then and there, even if they defeated the Future Androids.

Also, about Trunks' blast. He was clearly surprised that they were completely undamaged by his blast, so it should be obvious at that point that something is different.

Not necessarily. Trunks had already stated before that he was powerless against the Future Androids. His display against the present Androids was no different. He was surprised, yes, but that doesn't mean he could grasp their strength from that alone.