2 different topics that caught my attention

ahill1

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1 -- it's very likely that, although close, SPC is still below SSJ2 kid Gohan... yet l, when being unguarded, it damaged Gohan a lot, making him lose more than half his power. Most assume Raditz < 1307 because the attack from Gohan heavily damaged him. But couldn't the same logic be applied there? Raditz was in disbelief at Gohan's power and caught in the shock, he didn't guard for the attack...

2 - Most assume Dodoria is like 20k and Zarbon, 22k, to make sense of Vegeta's dominant performance without a small as fuck gap. But still, the Daizenshuu numbers at least gives the notion of how Dodoria and Zarbon treated Vegeta and Cui a more sensible approach. Dodoria being 1.1x above both, I don't think he'd be so calm and treat them as sub warriors, not on their position... at least the 22k and 23k range gives that more breathing room to scoff at that level of power, tho that would make Zarbon 95% of Vegeta and unable to touch him. Would that be explained by skills? Still strange as Vegeta never brought skills into the picture, it was all how slow Zarbon was moving.
 

Pakl

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Dodoria: 21,000
Zarbon: 22,000
 

FeatsofPower

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Vegeta and Cui being 18k is too close to Dodoria being 20k but it is what it is, AT didn’t leave enough room here for us.
 

GreatSaiyaman123

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1. Agreed, and Raditz saying Gohan is “even stronger than you” instead of “me/us” just confirms that. Also worth pointing out Cell never even does anything to rival Gohan.

2. I’m neutral on this one. Here it’s just Vegeta > Zarbon/Dodoria > Kui and gaps be damned, nothing we can do. If you’re stronger, you win, percentages don’t matter. We just pretend they do so we can make numbers based on something.
 

FeatsofPower

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So if Raditz > Gohan, then KHH is like 70% of Raditz which means Imperfect Cell must be way above the Light Grenade
 

ahill1

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Dodoria being 22k and Zarbon 23k is more doable given their treatment of Vegeta and Cui. It's kinda too much one sided, Vegeta vs Zarbon, to be treated as a 95% range. But the numbers don't seem devoid of logic, since to me it's a more proper spacing than leaving Dodoria 1.1x above Cui.

Maybe something like

Dodoria - 21,500
Zarbon - 22,400

Could be sensible too. Dodoria is 89% of Vegeta... And Vegeta with the same advantage over Kaioken Goku stated he held back on the blast Goku dodged because he wanted to have more fun... It may be possible that under such a difference a FP blast from Vegeta would just destroy a running away Dodoria.

Zarbon would be at 93% of Vegeta. Well, that's the range we generally have Goku vs Freeza, right? But who's to say a 100 who's been on the active front line of battle couldn't dominate a 93 who's been away from any big battles? That seems doable. Maybe if one insists in making SSJ Goku vs Freeza smaller than Vegeta vs Zarbon (but it seemes despite never training Freeza is more apt to battle in general, like fighting is a gift from despite never having trained and been challenged in battle... Otherwise he wouldn't hold his own vs Piccolo that well when he was slightly weaker for example... And he had some techniques and rapid thinking which got Goku off guard which shows he's naturally talented in fighting), one can push Freeza to 96% of SSJ Goku, 144,000,000 vs 150,000,000.

As for Raditz, I dunnno what Nappa considers rivaling when he thinks of powers so below his range... He or Vegeta stated Raditz was killed by powers barely above 1,000 when the powers reached 1,330... So maybe to them a 1,500 vs 1,200 is rivaling, within the same category... And since there's that thing with Gohan hurting Raditz and Cell hurting an unguarded Gohan, maybe, just maybe, the 1,500 BP for him isn't so off... Piccolo's Makankosappo has piercing properties too, which can mean it can effect stronger opponents despite being inferior in raw power, a little bit like the Kienzan, tho to a way smaller extent of course. Since it is like a beam, the small area puts tremendous pressure wherever it hits, so it may be possible it could still be a threat or kill someone 1.13x above it.

So maybe the 1,500 number could be also made a case for...

Yamcha -- 1,480
Kuririn - 1,770
Tenshinhan - 1,830

I've no big problems with either besides Yamcha being a little above from the Saibaimen than I'd have liked, Tenshinhan as well.

Nappa 4,000 can't work unless it's directed to the power he used vs the Z warriors. Trading blows vs a much stronger Goku and evening it out is a hard sell and a big stretch with him remaining the same BP. 7,800 at FP would be a good range for him.

Piccolo's 3,500 is also another hard sell. Piccolo stated when Gohan puts his mind into it, his power surpasses his... We saw enraged Gohan with a Masenko on top being read at 2,800... We have no reason to doubt Piccolo was talking that to motivate Gohan, since that wasn't clear and we have no reason to think the power Gohan dished out when enraged wasn't what Piccolo was thinking... If anything, it could have surpassed Piccolo's estimations even since Piccolo was in shock when Nappa was kicked... And it's a hard sell Gohan's power when he puts his mind to it would fall short of Piccolo's expectarions when Gohan was as enraged as possible with Piccolo's death. It is a number that can't be reasoned.


Saibaiman - 1,200
Yamcha - 1,480
Raditz - 1,500
Kuririn - 1,770
Tenshinhan - 1,830
Piccolo - 2,400
Enraged Gohan - 2,800
Nappa - 4,000
--- using FP - 7,800

Goku - 8,050
-- Kaioken - 16,100

Vegeta - 18,000


Dodoria - 21,500
Zarbon - 22,400
Vegeta - 24,000
Monster Zarbon - 29,000
Vegeta - 30,000


Freeza (100%) - 143,000,000
SSJ Goku - 150,000,000

That's something I could roll with.

Still tho, preferably, I'd make Raditz 1,320... That leaves more room for Yamcha to surpass him noticeably (but be still not so above the Saibaimen), which I think was part of the point of AT having the earthlings face someone Nappa labeled as rivaling Raditz... So I think the rivaling carries more of a legitimate tune there as it was meant to directly up how the enhanced Earthlings were doing vs someone rivaling or on par with Raditz. 1,320 still makes him above 1,307 Gohan and below Makankosappo... And is 1.1x above the Saibaimen, a good range for the rivaling label imo.

Raditz 1,320
Yamcha 1,400
Kuririn 1,600
Tenshinhan 1,700
Picolo 2,250
Gohan (enraged) 2,600
--- Masenko - 2,800

Sounds like a good range too.
 

FeatsofPower

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Dodoria being 22k and Zarbon 23k is more doable given their treatment of Vegeta and Cui. It's kinda too much one sided, Vegeta vs Zarbon, to be treated as a 95% range. But the numbers don't seem devoid of logic, since to me it's a more proper spacing than leaving Dodoria 1.1x above Cui.

Maybe something like

Dodoria - 21,500
Zarbon - 22,400
It's really just another error on AT'st part, just like BoZ. But it's not that big of a deal so we just kind of gotta deal with it.
 

FeatsofPower

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Yeah everyone's got their way of dealing with that.
Which is why starting from scratch is the logical option, but once you have Nappa and Raditz in the millions, the numbers become a wash anyway.

Making Freeza a billion and the numbers get outrageous. It's better to just make everything smaller beforehand.
 

ahill1

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Which is why starting from scratch is the logical option, but once you have Nappa and Raditz in the millions, the numbers become a wash anyway.

Making Freeza a billion and the numbers get outrageous. It's better to just make everything smaller beforehand.
Or treat everything as tier of powers.
 
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