23rd Tenkaichi Budokai Power Discussion

[ahill1]

Well, Goku also said Ten was a LOT faster than before. If what Ten showed before was on par with Goku's speed and his speed after stopping holding back was a lot greater, then Ten and Goku's strength are also a lot greater compared to what Goku showed against King Piccolo, don't you agree? Therefore what Ten said about Goku's power being far greater than what he showed before must be true imo.

I feel like the advantage Ten had against weighted Goku was more like 1.2~1.3x and what unweighted Goku had against Ten was ~1.5x. What makes you think unweighted Goku vs Ten is less (dominance-wise) than initial Roshi vs Yamcha? Both Yamcha and Ten were equally outclassed... and Roshi was avoiding Yamcha's hits just like Goku was. Avoiding instead of tanking doesn't mean much imo, when a mini Cell also dodged Kuririn instead of flat out tanking him.

Tenshinhan thinking Goku is possessed implies a pretty large gap to me... have you ever seen someone thinking the opponent is possessed? It's like admiting Goku is from a different realm. 1.3x doesn't cut it for me. Even 1.5x might be lowballing IMO.

Goku feeling Ten's eye laser might be a bit inconsistent though. Each Tenshinhan had 1/4 the power of the original. So they should be like 1/6 of Goku's power, so harming him just seems weird, specially when Goku didn't even feel Piccolo's storm of blasts at their warm up, which should logically be way above freaking 1/4 of Tenshinhan's power. Just weird IMO.

 

[Victorious]

Goku 23rd [full power] ~ Piccolo Junior [full power] >>> Piccolo Junior weighted vs Kami > Kami/Shen >>> Tenshinhan's estimation of Goku >>> unweighted Goku >>> Tenshinhan >> Goku post sacred water > Piccolo Daimao.

Weighted Goku is as strong as Tenshinhan but only as fast as Goku post Sacred Water.

 

[Evil Vegeta]

Some nice analysis in here. This is easily the most unfamiliar arc to me, power-wise.

I'd like to see yall talk about Cyborg Tao's power.

 

[Victorious]

I don't think anyone had surpassed FP Piccolo Daimao until Tenshinhan. So i'm against Krillin or Cypborg Tao being as powerful as Piccolo Daimao.

 

[p123]

@ withheld

Wrong. Tien says he doesn't think Goku used anywhere near his full power against him. Next he says that Shen's power is inconceivable.

Shen >> Expected Goku

It's fair, logical and is the right way until proven wrong. Suck a big one.


@ ahill

Tien (Full Speed) vs Goku is just not a 1.2x gap. That's a Dodoria vs Vegeta gap. Goku is managing pretty well. Tien is too fast and he Goku can't do anything, but Goku vs Tien is closer to Zarbon vs Vegeta or Goku vs Cell than he is to Dodoria vs Vegeta or 20 vs Piccolo. The gap is overly exaggerated, remember these guys are not the expert ki sensors we know later in the story. Also, AT's thoughts on ki sensing and what's big or not isn't fully fleshed out. Semi Cell's power up seems less exaggerated than what Tien and Goku are saying, but I bet you Semi Cell's power up is bigger. You have to remember context here. Anything above King Piccolo is like ungodly power. Even if it's a little bit. Goku can't be 1.5x Tien either, could you imagine Goku struggling this much with 4 Ginyu Force people? Would not happen. Did you even read my breakdown, go back to my post and reread that fucking shit you dick.


@ Vic

Yes agree with that chain, but that's standard. Where does Initial Goku vs Piccolo belong on that chain? How do you feel about Kami's statement of Piccolo > Kami > Shen even though Piccolo >= Shen? And yes you are right again about only Goku and Tien surpassing Piccolo Daimao.

Yamcha and Krillen are clearly very close to Goku's speed, I have them at 88% of Goku's speed. Goku's speed hasn't changed. Piccolo Daimao was probably like 93-96% of Goku's speed.

Which is why...

Piccolo Junior (Initial vs Krillen) = Piccolo Daimao > Krillen


We get to see King Piccolo in action and Krillen is outmatched, but he is able to capitalize on Piccolo's disregard for his power.

I'm the fucking man for figuring that shit out.

 

[ahill1]

@ ahill

Tien (Full Speed) vs Goku is just not a 1.2x gap. That's a Dodoria vs Vegeta gap. Goku is managing pretty well. Tien is too fast and he Goku can't do anything, but Goku vs Tien is closer to Zarbon vs Vegeta or Goku vs Cell than he is to Dodoria vs Vegeta or 20 vs Piccolo. The gap is overly exaggerated, remember these guys are not the expert ki sensors we know later in the story. Also, AT's thoughts on ki sensing and what's big or not isn't fully fleshed out. Semi Cell's power up seems less exaggerated than what Tien and Goku are saying, but I bet you Semi Cell's power up is bigger. You have to remember context here. Anything above King Piccolo is like ungodly power. Even if it's a little bit. Goku can't be 1.5x Tien either, could you imagine Goku struggling this much with 4 Ginyu Force people? Would not happen. Did you even read my breakdown, go back to my post and reread that fucking shit you dick.

Goku did say Tenshinhan is way faster than before. If Ten's speed was = Goku's before, then logically his speed should be way bigger now. I think Goku can more or less keep up only due to his superior reflexes, which might have improved a good deal with Popo's training. Goku's speed didn't change compared to three years ago, but I don't see why his "reflexes", "speed reaction" would stay the same, the weights holding back this just doesn't make sense imo. Note that Tenshinhan even noticed Goku's eyes are fast enough but his body isn't, meaning they aren't completely in-sync:

 

[p123]

Yes. The only problem we are having is that you seemingly think that way faster means a hell of lot more than Goku and Tien. Go with the character's, not your own point of view. We can clearly see what they mean by far above, way faster and so on. In our world, it's not much. 1.2x is going to cut it, maybe less.

We know this from the fight. As I said, Goku is not terribly behind. He's a bit further than Zarbon was vs Vegeta, but he's not Dodoria. He's right in the middle.

 

[ahill1]

Well, like I said I think Goku could do relatively well against Tenshinhan due to his sharp reflexes, being able to predict what he would do or so. There's more than sheer speed involved to attacking, there's also a mental aspect where you need to be able to perceive the opponent's movements. Reading what an opponent will do next is something even real life martial artists would do, and Tenshinhan acknowledged Goku could do it, despite his body not being fast enough.

 

[p123]

Agreed, Goku is doing as optimal as possible.

Same as Goku was doing as optimal as he could against Cell.

All in all, I think it's clear...


(In order of closest to largest gap)

1) Cell > Goku
2) Vegeta > Zarbon
3) Tien > Goku
4) Vegeta > Dodoria

You know I'm right boiii

 

[p123]

Get back to this.

 

[SSJ2]

ahill can you change your avatar? I have no idea what's going on when you and p are talking..

 

[p123]

THat's what you get for changing mine you fool.

 

[SSJ2]

I didn't do it, boss.

 

[p123]

Well then some fag hacked my account. Certainly I wouldn't put some bunny shit on my thing, can you fix it and waterboard the infidel who did it. Thanks.

 

[p123]

How can anyone take this site seriously if mods are literally hacking into your account and changing shit around. If it happens again, I'll charge a fee to grace this place with my divine presence.

 

[SSJ2]

Yeah do you want the same picture or something else?

 

[p123]

What else?

 

[SSJ2]

MAGA Trump

 

[p123]

https://www.google.com/search?q=mAGA&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjy-MuTrKDTAhUJZCYKHRusCq0Q_AUICCgB&biw=1280&bih=591#imgrc=02CToBjl7KS1gM:

 

[Void]

Who are the bunny fags?