2nd Freeza final power up

[p123]

Well it's definitely very possible that Gohan just assumes nothing can beat a Super Saiyan as well. He might not be aware that Freeza was only using 50% of his power at the time as well.

 

[Super Neko Majin Z]

(My advantage needed to curbstomp is 40%)
First form Frieza: 150,000
Second form Frieza (initial): 190,000
Second form Frieza (full power): 300,000
Third form Frieza: 600,000 (there's no reason to think it's not the same boost as the second form)
Fourth form Frieza (initial): 1,200,000
Base Goku: 2,000,000

 

[freezamite]

When Freezer transforms into his 3rd form (2nd form here), he states that his power surpases the 1 million units, but that doesn't mean he is using that 1 million units already.
In fact, he states the opposite (after launching his first attack, he says that even a saiyan could've done that). Freezer was playing with them, he probably started at 600.000 units and ended just a tad over a million (1.050.000 for example).

 

[Evil Vegeta]

He said if his power could be put into numbers, it would surpass a million. That means his current power is already over a million. Destroying the surrounding area isn't anything special; that's why Saiyans can also do it. We also know Saiyans outside of Vegeta were never anywhere near Zarbon and Dodoria, so it isn't a numerical statement.

 

[p123]

This fucking Freeazmite shithead is the fucking worst!

 

[ahill1]

Was p's post deleted?

 

[freezamite]

He said if his power could be put into numbers, it would surpass a million. That means his current power is already over a million. Destroying the surrounding area isn't anything special; that's why Saiyans can also do it. We also know Saiyans outside of Vegeta were never anywhere near Zarbon and Dodoria, so it isn't a numerical statement.

Yes, his power could surpass a million, no one debates this. But he is speaking of his maximum power in that form, just like when he said his power was 530.000.
Against Nail:
Chapter: 286 (DBZ 92), P5.4
Freeza: "My battle power is 530,000. But of course, I don't intend to fight you at full power, so you can relax..."

After transforming:
Chapter: 296 (DBZ 102), P9.1-2
Freeza: "At any rate, my power is excessive. Perhaps I've overdone it... Kukkukku... Incidentally, if [my strength] were put into battle power, it would be over 1,000,000, surely..."

Freeza: “Hahhahhah…Well, as I’d expect, all of you are pretty quick at running away. This just now was merely my way of saying "hello". Even Saiyans can do a thing like this.”

See a pattern here? He firstly states his maximum power to impress his enemies, then he proceeds to play against them. What would be the point in stating his repressed power exactly if his aim is to demonstrate how astonishingly strong he is?
What you're arguing is that against Nail Freezer should've said: "my power is 80.000", for example, even when his power really was 530.000. But what would be the point on doing that?
It would only make sense if Freezer intended to hide his real strength to suddenly release it and take his adversary by surprise (like when Piccolo faked being injured by A20 to save Goku while the Androids were distracted), but those obviously weren't Freezer's intentions at all.
He wanted to show superiority, so he estimated the power he could achieve in that form. In nowhere he says "the power I'm using at that point is more than one million", in fact, just after stating that even a saiyan could do what he initially did, he says:

And he even further states:
Chapter: 297 (DBZ 103), P2.4
Context: as Freeza stabs into Kuririn
Freeza: “Whoops, sorry about that. Seems I really do have too much power for me to properly control myself.”

Which means that he is trying to control himself and his power.

 

[Evil Vegeta]

The difference is he specifically told Nail he never intended to fight him at full-power. After transforming, he said his new power would be over a million if it was actually put into numbers. The instances aren't the same. And Freeza went on to power-up significantly twice afterwards. Freeza said 530k is his full-power. Freeza never said over a million is his max. He just says his power in terms of Battle Power is over a million. That means it could easily be his initial level only, and that actually makes more sense than making his transformation a minuscule boost. Just because Freeza said something (in another context entirely, btw) in another instance doesn't mean the same reasoning needs to be utilized in his later statements. These characters aren't robots.

As for Freeza having an issue controlling his power:

Freeza has no issue controlling his power. If it was really a matter of control, he'd naturally have the same problem in his more powerful forms. Freeza having an issue controlling his power is his way of scaring everyone.

 

[freezamite]

The difference is he specifically told Nail he never intended to fight him at full-power.

Because, of course, saying:
"This just now was merely my way of saying 'hello'. Even Saiyans can do a thing like this."
Or:
“Whoops, sorry about that. Seems I really do have too much power for me to properly control myself.”

means that he was fighting at full power? Not only that means the opposite, it's also proven that he wasn't fighting with all his power when he powered up without transforming afterwards.

After transforming, he said his new power would be over a million if it was actually put into numbers.

Which is the exact same he said when he fought against Nail, except that time he could give an exact number because he still had scoutters (not the portable ones) able to measure his power.

I mean, even the way he says it is the exact same.
Against Nail:
"My battle power is 530,000."

Against the z-warriors:
"At any rate, my power is excessive. Perhaps I've overdone it... Kukkukku... Incidentally, if [my strength] were put into battle power, it would be over 1,000,000, surely..."

In both cases he says his power is what it is, and in both cases he proceeds to say that he isn't using all that power to fight. The only difference is that with Nail he says it all in one vignette, but that of course doesn't change the meaning of what he says.

The instances aren't the same. And Freeza went on to power-up significantly twice afterwards.

Yes, Freezer also significantly powered up in his weakest form to fight Vegeta. So?

Freeza said 530k is his full-power. Freeza never said over a million is his max.

In both cases he said "my power is -put here the number you want". With Nail he said "my power is 530.000" and with the z-warriors he said "my power is over 1.000.000".
And absolutely no one argues that Freezer's power at that form didn't surpass the million.

He just says his power in terms of Battle Power is over a million.

Which happens to be the exact same than when he spoke to Nail. He said his power was 530.000 battle power units, which is the same as saying that his strength in terms of battle power was 530.000.

That means it could easily be his initial level only, and that actually makes more sense than making his transformation a minuscule boost.

A minuscule boost? Going from 530k to over 1 million is a minuscule boost? Going from 18k to 24k was already a huge boost, in fact, it was so huge that someone that was clearly above Vegeta before having that boost (Dodoria) was completely overpowered after it.
So no, 530k to over 1 million is not minuscule.
By the way, Freezer never used his 530k units of the first form in the manga, he probably transformed after using 300k to 400k against Vegeta.

Just because Freeza said something (in another context entirely, btw) in another instance doesn't mean the same reasoning needs to be utilized in his later statements. These characters aren't robots.

The context is the same: Freezer wants to show how superior he is and how huge is his strength. Yes, these characters aren't robots, and that's why it has no sense for Freezer in that context to speak about his suppressed power. If he was a robot whose only finality was to let us the readers know about the power he was using at that moment, then you could make a point.
But he wasn't, and he was presuming of how strong he was, it would make absolutely no sense to say what he said.
At least, in that context, he should have said: "My strength is over 1 million... and I can even increase it much more!".

What you say doesn't make sense. Why would Freezer, if his aim is to demonstrate how incredibly strong he is, talk about a suppressed power that would impress much less than his real maximum power?
Even when he explained his transformations to Piccolo, in order to impress him, he directly told him he had TWO extra transformations. Why did he do that? Because that's his character! He isn't here to give the reader information, he is a pedantic space overlord that enjoys seeing his opponents tremble in fear.

As for Freeza having an issue controlling his power:

-multiple images of Freezer powering up in his 2nd form-

Freeza has no issue controlling his power. If it was really a matter of control, he'd naturally have the same problem in his more powerful forms. Freeza having an issue controlling his power is his way of scaring everyone.

Freezer did have an issue controlling his power. That doesn't mean he couldn't control it at all, which is obvious that he could (to a certain degree). But the reason he transforms and the reason he is always transformed into his weakest form is because he can't properly control his power.
What does that mean? It means that in his second form, for example, Freezer wouldn't be able to do a normal life. He could only lower his power to a certain degree, and to lower it past that point he needed to further transform to lower his power.
His father, for example, didn't need his weakest form in order to properly control his power, so he didn't use it. This wasn't the case for Freezer.
Heck, even Goku had some problems controlling his power when he didn't pay much attention after he came back from Namek (it was a comical scene with Chi Chi just before the 3 years timeskip to fight the androids), and of course that Goku could increase his strength (and even transform into a SSJ).

 

[Evil Vegeta]

"This just now was merely my way of saying 'hello'. Even Saiyans can do a thing like this."
Or:
“Whoops, sorry about that. Seems I really do have too much power for me to properly control myself.”

means that he was fighting at full power? Not only that means the opposite, it's also proven that he wasn't fighting with all his power when he powered up without transforming afterwards.

You're not understanding what I'm saying. I'm saying his power was already over a million after he transformed and proceeded to go well above a million after he powered-up twice. What you're saying is he transformed, said over a million was his max, and used a level below a million to attack everyone. That's your opinion.

Which is the exact same he said when he fought against Nail, except that time he could give an exact number because he still had scoutters (not the portable ones) able to measure his power.

No, it isn't the same. Freeza said he would never fight Nail at full-power. Freeza told the others he was over a million and later powered-up twice.

Also, you do realize over a million can range from 1,000,001 to 1,999,999 at the most, right? There's nothing precise about it. Freeza can already be over a million when not fighting seriously.

In both cases he says his power is what it is, and in both cases he proceeds to say that he isn't using all that power to fight. The only difference is that with Nail he says it all in one vignette, but that of course doesn't change the meaning of what he says.

Like I said, over a million is a basic estimation of his power. The main point you're supposed to takeaway is that he's over a million right there. When he puts forth all of his power, his power is considered "limitless", so it's obviously way higher than it was after transforming and his 1st power-up. He gives a very precise level to Nail, so we know his full-power ends at 530k and can't be any higher than that. Over a million is entirely different.

Yes, Freezer also significantly powered up in his weakest form to fight Vegeta. So?

The difference is a precise level isn't stated in his 2nd Form. We know Freeza can't be above 530k against Vegeta. The same can't be said about his transformed state.

1st Form Full-Power: 530,000 (Can't go above this)
Initial: 1,060,000 (Over a million)
Powered-Up: 1,250,000 (Over a million)
Full-Power: 1,500,000 (Over a million)

So you see, the Nail instance isn't comparable whatsoever.

In both cases he said "my power is -put here the number you want". With Nail he said "my power is 530.000" and with the z-warriors he said "my power is over 1.000.000".

Yeah, except one is precise and the other has enough room to change constantly.

And absolutely no one argues that Freezer's power at that form didn't surpass the million.

You said he likely started at 600k like a page back. That's hardly a change from 530k and Vegeta even thought the change wouldn't be significant. Certainly not enough to make everyone shit themselves the way they did.

Which happens to be the exact same than when he spoke to Nail. He said his power was 530.000 battle power units, which is the same as saying that his strength in terms of battle power was 530.000.

530k=/=Over a million

One is precise. One isn't. You're limiting how far he can go in a million because you insist on assuming the statements are the same. They're not. At all.

A minuscule boost? Going from 530k to over 1 million is a minuscule boost? Going from 18k to 24k was already a huge boost, in fact, it was so huge that someone that was clearly above Vegeta before having that boost (Dodoria) was completely overpowered after it.

So I take it you're no longer saying Freeza was only 600k when he transformed?

By the way, Freezer never used his 530k units of the first form in the manga, he probably transformed after using 300k to 400k against Vegeta.

Proof? Freeza did a long power-up after admitting how pissed off he was at them. No reason to believe he wasn't at full-power there.

The context is the same: Freezer wants to show how superior he is and how huge is his strength. Yes, these characters aren't robots, and that's why it has no sense for Freezer in that context to speak about his suppressed power. If he was a robot whose only finality was to let us the readers know about the power he was using at that moment, then you could make a point.

Ergh, it makes even less sense for Freeza to say his power was over a million only for him to be using 600k of it. There's no issue with Freeza's initial power being over a million. You just want to keep the numbers extra low for some reason.

But he wasn't, and he was presuming of how strong he was, it would make absolutely no sense to say what he said.
At least, in that context, he should have said: "My strength is over 1 million... and I can even increase it much more!".

Lol, no, he wouldn't. Over a million consists of a wide range of power. We see with our own eyes that he drastically raised his power after transforming. Not everything needs to be stated how you want it to be to prove a point.

What you say doesn't make sense. Why would Freezer, if his aim is to demonstrate how incredibly strong he is, talk about a suppressed power that would impress much less than his real maximum power?

If his max still falls within the million range, how does that change the original statement? Suppressed Freeza and Max Power Freeza can both be over a million and there's no contradiction. The same can't be said about 530k Freeza, who can't be any higher than that level alone.

Even when he explained his transformations to Piccolo, in order to impress him, he directly told him he had TWO extra transformations. Why did he do that? Because that's his character! He isn't here to give the reader information, he is a pedantic space overlord that enjoys seeing his opponents tremble in fear.

He made his opponents tremble when he powered-up twice in his 2nd form, too. His power was already way above everyone else's but he decided to power-up just to show it off. Statements aren't the only thing that matter here because actions are just as important, if not more. Freeza transformed, had a power over a million, powered-up tremendously a chapter later, and unleashed what appeared to be a significant amount of power some chapters after that. A little over a million wasn't his max at all, nor does it need to be unless you just want to be extra conservative with numbers for the hell of it.

Freezer did have an issue controlling his power. That doesn't mean he couldn't control it at all, which is obvious that he could (to a certain degree). But the reason he transforms and the reason he is always transformed into his weakest form is because he can't properly control his power.

Again, he didn't. We're talking about controlling his power in battle, not when he's taking a bath. Freeza showed there was no issue controlling his power in battle, which is the entire point.

 

[freezamite]

You're not understanding what I'm saying. I'm saying his power was already over a million after he transformed and proceeded to go well above a million after he powered-up twice. What you're saying is he transformed, said over a million was his max, and used a level below a million to attack everyone. That's your opinion.

Of course that's my opinion. Isn't Freezer going from 1 million + to 1 million ++ also your opinion? I don't know why your opinion should have more weight than mine if you don't back it up with arguments that demonstrate you're right.

No, it isn't the same. Freeza said he would never fight Nail at full-power. Freeza told the others he was over a million and later powered-up twice.

He later powered-up twice because he faced stronger foes that forced him to do so, if Nail had suddenly released a 150.000 battle power, Freezer would have also powered up against him. I don't think the point on stating that, I mean, does it change anything that Freezer didn't power up against Nail while he did afterwards?

Also, you do realize over a million can range from 1,000,001 to 1,999,999 at the most, right? There's nothing precise about it. Freeza can already be over a million when not fighting seriously.

In fact, literally speaking over one million ranges from one million to infinite. 100 millions it's also over 1 million, isn't it?
Furthermore, if Freezer had been 1.5 millions, do you really think it would make sense for him to say that his power is "over a million"? Considering he was trying to impress them, to express 1,999,999 as "over a million" is completely misleading and goes against the purpose of what he intended to do. If 1,999,999 was his power, then an expression like "almost 2 millions" would've made more sense. People doesn't speak in such obscure ways and even less if doing so goes against what they're trying to do...

Like I said, over a million is a basic estimation of his power. The main point you're supposed to takeaway is that he's over a million right there. When he puts forth all of his power, his power is considered "limitless", so it's obviously way higher than it was after transforming and his 1st power-up. He gives a very precise level to Nail, so we know his full-power ends at 530k and can't be any higher than that. Over a million is entirely different.

Of course, over a million is just an estimation, which means that he couldn't measure his power with a precise device like a scoutter. My reasoning for 2nd form Freezer's strength is, besides what I already said about the wording of his sentence, the data/feats given in latter sagas of the manga.
Of course over a million is not a precise number, but you also have to take into consideration the context in which this is said. Why would Freezer say "over a million" if "nearly two millions" or "one and a half millions" is a better estimation and serves better his purpose of demonstrating how strong he was?

The difference is a precise level isn't stated in his 2nd Form. We know Freeza can't be above 530k against Vegeta. The same can't be said about his transformed state.

1st Form Full-Power: 530,000 (Can't go above this)
Initial: 1,060,000 (Over a million)
Powered-Up: 1,250,000 (Over a million)
Full-Power: 1,500,000 (Over a million)

So you see, the Nail instance isn't comparable whatsoever.

But that is completely unnatural. Of course over 1 million could even be 1,999,999 units, or 99,999,999 units mathematically speaking. But what sense does it make to express those number as "over one million" if Freezer's aim was to presume of his strength?
If his power could've reached 1,500,000, don't you think his sentence would have been "my power is one and a half million"?

Yeah, except one is precise and the other has enough room to change constantly.

In both cases he is speaking of the power he has, and even if over one million can become over one million plus some hundred thousands more, what I'm saying is that in both cases Freezer states the strength he has in that form, not the strength he is using at that moment. And also that if his power had been 1.5 millions, to express it as just "over one million" isn't a natural way of saying it and in that context it doesn't make much sense.

You said he likely started at 600k like a page back. That's hardly a change from 530k and Vegeta even thought the change wouldn't be significant. Certainly not enough to make everyone shit themselves the way they did.

Yes, he may have started at 600k but he could still reach over one million. I've also said that Freezer never used his 530k against Vegeta, more like 300k to 400k. So going from (let's say) 350k to 600k is a much, much bigger jump than a jump that was already considered huge (18k to 24k).

One is precise. One isn't. You're limiting how far he can go in a million because you insist on assuming the statements are the same. They're not. At all.

No, I'm not limiting Freezer's strength to one million, what I'm saying is that he can't be much higher than that. He can be 1,050,000, or even 1,100,000. More than that feels unnatural to me, because even if 1,200,000 is also "over one million", an expression like "well over one million" would make much more sense here. He was presuming of his strength, there's no way he would undersell his power to just "over one million" if he surpassed that number by a lot.

Proof? Freeza did a long power-up after admitting how pissed off he was at them. No reason to believe he wasn't at full-power there.

http://mangalife.org/read-online/Dragon-Ball-chapter-101-index-2-page-13.html
Freezer is clearly much less affected by the effort made than Vegeta. Considering Freezer's main hindrance was his lack of stamina, that scene doesn't make sense if we assume both fighters went all out. Vegeta fought with all his strength while Freezer didn't, that explains why Vegeta is already panting while Freezer was still fresh despite normally having much less stamina.

Ergh, it makes even less sense for Freeza to say his power was over a million only for him to be using 600k of it.

Why not? He says he can reach over a million to impress the others, then proceeds to use a fraction of it because he want to play with them. I mean, that's exactly what he did with Nail, you can't say it doesn't make sense. For Freezer, that totally made sense!

There's no issue with Freeza's initial power being over a million. You just want to keep the numbers extra low for some reason.

Yes, there are a lot of issues with not only the way he words his sentence, but also concrete feats from posterior sagas.

Lol, no, he wouldn't. Over a million consists of a wide range of power. We see with our own eyes that he drastically raised his power after transforming. Not everything needs to be stated how you want it to be to prove a point.

We seeing later that he could increase his powers shouldn't affect what he said before doing it if the manga is properly written. Over a million goes from 1,000,001 to infinite, but the context of the sentence points to a much, much lower range than that.

If his max still falls within the million range, how does that change the original statement? Suppressed Freeza and Max Power Freeza can both be over a million and there's no contradiction. The same can't be said about 530k Freeza, who can't be any higher than that level alone.

But as I've said, its unnatural. If you want to show how incredibly strong you are, and your power is 1,5 million, why say "over a million" instead of "one and a half millions"?
I mean, it's technically true, but if I go and say "hey, I'm rich, I have over 1 million dollars" and I in reality have let's say 3 million dollars, or even 1,5 million dollars, or I'm trying to seem poorer than I really am or I'm just retarded because I word it in a way that seems lower than it really is.

He made his opponents tremble when he powered-up twice in his 2nd form, too. His power was already way above everyone else's but he decided to power-up just to show it off. Statements aren't the only thing that matter here because actions are just as important, if not more.

He only powered up when he faced unexpectedly stronger characters. In other words, if Gohan hadn't enraged like he did and Piccolo hadn't appeared with the strength he had, Freezer wouldn't have powered up and would've tortured and killed everyone with his initial power. So, when Freezer said that in that form his power was over one million, he didn't have any intention of further powering up.

Freeza transformed, had a power over a million, powered-up tremendously a chapter later, and unleashed what appeared to be a significant amount of power some chapters after that. A little over a million wasn't his max at all, nor does it need to be unless you just want to be extra conservative with numbers for the hell of it.

That's your opinion. But that would make Freezer retarded. If his power was much above one million, why did he say his power was just "over one million". Furthermore, Kami-Piccolo's power was between 3 and 4 million, so having 2nd form Freezer much stronger than 1 million not only makes the way this was written wrong, it also makes the scaling from there to kami-Piccolo impossible to justify.

Again, he didn't. We're talking about controlling his power in battle, not when he's taking a bath. Freeza showed there was no issue controlling his power in battle, which is the entire point.

??? It doesn't matter if it was in battle or while taking a bath. Freezer's power in his stronger forms could only be controlled within a given range. That being said, I think you misunderstood what I was saying. I'm not saying that Freezer's power can't be well past over one million (let's say 1,5 million like you imply) because he can't control his power, I was saying that when he attacked Krilin, Freezer was trying to control his power in order to not 1-hit kill him. It was to demonstrate that he did the same against the z-warriors than he did against Nail: he told them how big his maximum power was, then proceeded to play with them with his suppressed strength.

 

[p123]

Yep I think so. Someone hates free speech. The gist of it was that this guy freezamite really sucks. This kid is really retarded. Do we have the option to block the person? I don't want to see his shit at all, pure garbage.

 

[xmysticgohanx]

There is no good reason to have initial 2nd form Freeza > a million honestly

He could easily just be referring to his full power in that form. He also could easily be referring to his current power as well.

 

[KyuubiAhri]

Yep I think so. Someone hates free speech. The gist of it was that this guy freezamite really sucks. This kid is really retarded. Do we have the option to block the person? I don't want to see his shit at all, pure garbage.

He is not retarded,He is just trying to use logic to prove his point which happens to be different than yours.He seems like a good debator

 

[p123]

No there's no logic there. Nothing Freeza said suggested he had anymore power than what he showed. That's why everyone was shocked when he was able to power up further.

1st Form power 530,000
2nd Form ( Initial ) Surely over a million

It's just common sense at this point people.

 

[KyuubiAhri]

But still we shouldn't call him retarded.Yes surely,the guy is trying to prove something that is very unlikely(and he may go on someone's nerves) but still he aint any controversial figure in the DB Forum's kingdom like Tosh or Sgtmartin.He's probably still an inexperienced debator just like we all were when we were begginers

 

[xmysticgohanx]

Nah he's pretty good. Most of his views are very weird and unusual though.

 

[KyuubiAhri]

Nah he's pretty good. Most of his views are very weird and unusual though.

Views constantly change,unless your profile name is T.0.S.H.We all had crazy and somewhat stupid ideas,and if i were to tell you mine,you surely would laugh a lot

 

[Keedounan]

Nah he's pretty good. Most of his views are very weird and unusual though.

Views constantly change,unless your profile name is T.0.S.H.We all had crazy and somewhat stupid ideas,and if i were to tell you mine,you surely would laugh a lot

I once thought that Broly could give a good fight to SSJ Gogeta because he could in the Budokai 3 and Tenkaichi 3 intros.
*wait for the laughter*

 

[KyuubiAhri]

Nah he's pretty good. Most of his views are very weird and unusual though.

Views constantly change,unless your profile name is T.0.S.H.We all had crazy and somewhat stupid ideas,and if i were to tell you mine,you surely would laugh a lot

I once thought that Broly could give a good fight to SSJ Gogeta because he could in the Budokai 3 and Tenkaichi 3 intros.
*wait for the laughter*

I once thought that BOZ goku=EOZ goku and that base gotenks is as strong as raditz