A Good Matchup

[SSJ3 Gothic]

Hm, again its hard to say. However, she has fought others of her own kind, which is a much more intense fight than fighting say the armed special forces design to capture her. As far as I can remember, she hasn't been in a super long fight, but has consistently fought with another Diclonius in a decent fight.

That answers my question. I wanted to know if she had any fights longer than 5 seconds l0l.

I'm looking at the multiple scenarios here. Location has some causality on this fight, as Clayface likely needs a suitable environment to win. If this were a strait up death battle, inside of an arena or a cage match, Lucy wins hands down, barring a Lucky shot by Clayface. His regen is good, but I am not going to put it on god level or anything. He's a Batman villain, and to say his regen is infinate would be like saying he could stand there for days and take punishment from Superman.

At no point would I consider putting Clayface on that level. His limits aren't entirely shown, but I have to use some common sense nerfing based off his general placement in the DCU. So, in a closed environment, where he cannot use any cloaking, if you will, Lucy would be able to continously chop away, hack and slash at this big pile of mud until he would eventually wear away or it would be rules a no contest, lol. Lucy takes a one v one death battle. Again, subtracting some freaking occurance.

Let's change the setting, and say that Clayface was hired to subdue Lucy in place of the trained soldiers. Here is where I think his chances increase. In this case, he can hide as a person on a busy street, or as a statue or wall. Lucy is going about here business when suddenly she sees her long lost love, emerging from the masses. She is stunned, but it only takes a moment to realize something is not right. But before she can act, he swings his arm, transforming it into a giant hammer as he does so. Lucy leaps back as it smshes into the street. The crowd shrieks as Lucy quickly slices him into three parts, mulitating several onlookers in the process.

But it is not over. The body parts immediately merge, morphing into a muddy brown wave about ten feet hight. It moves to engulf her, but again Lucy shreds it to pieces. The streets have cleared, leaving them in an opening. She turns to leave. From behind her, the sound of a slurping liquid. Looking back, she sees the brown mass flowing into a sewer drain below her.

Then, the grounds beneath her starts to break, and Clayface bursts out of the cement in his full form.

This is how I see Clayface being able to win, constantly switching gears and changing things up. Not to say this is 100% in his favor. Lucy can win out here, but this is his more of his domain, depending on how crowded and dense the surroundings can be.

Care to drop a dime on your thoughts for this?

 

[Satsuki]

I pretty much agree with everything you've said. I see a cage match going to Lucy in an overwhelming defeat, but in a situation like the one you posted, I see Clayface taking the win here. The only abnormal thing in the Elfen Lied universe is the Diclonius and not anything like Clayface, so Lucy would have trouble anticipating his movements and beating him. Lucy would probably be taken down in that situation, but she would make hilarious work of him in a cage or flat open plain environment.

Situation One: Lucy
Situation Two: Clayface

 

[SSJ3 Gothic]

How would you feel about taking things down to as close to human level as possible? I don't have anyone in mind, yet, so feel free to jump. But we've done gods and superhumans. Do you have any interest in breaking things down to basics?

They don't have to be pure human with no powers. Just as close as possible. It might be interesting and challenging.

 

[Satsuki]

Sure, why not. I'll think of someone and post them and you can counter.

 

[Goddess Ultimecia]

May I be as so kind to attempt to make this a three way?

 

[Satsuki]

Of course!

 

[Goddess Ultimecia]

This is borrowed from my post from a thread on DBZF

<div class='spoiler_toggle'>Images of Squall</div><div class="spoiler" style="display:none;">

</div>

Well... my favorite character is a tie between Squall and Ultimecia. I'll start off with Squall. Story-wise, every single student at Balamb Garden is above Peak Human via use of the Guardian Force, the stronger the Guardian Force, the stronger they become. Even if you don't count every single Guardian Force since some of them are optional, story-wise Squall and co. would've had to of had atleast one since they suffer from the side-effects of Guardian Force (iirc, memory loss)

That said, they still can't take bullets. Evidenced by when they were escaping from Galbadia's political prison, where they took cover from soldiers firing at them.

That that being said, Squall is one of the twelve SeeD candidates (they were on a field exam to test if they were ready to join SeeD) who was tasked with clearing an entire town of an invading military. It should be noted that most of the soldiers were stationed in the mountains at the radio tower... Squall, Seifer, Selphie, and Zell (being the only ones that went that far) still kicked a*** all the way into the tower itself, kicked the asses of the in-charge officers, (they survived, but they are comic relief it should be noted. Biggs and Wedge in specific) and could've potentially destroyed the giant robot spider thing (which is possible if you destroy it on the bridge, mind you if you don't destroy it, Squall, Zell and Selphie run from it like all hell, to give an idea of how powerful this thing is, it took Quistis armed with a likely .50 cal mounted machine gun and concentrated fire on it to put it down and cause it to explode.)

All of this alone is good, but there's more I feel I should add. In-game there are many spells, but there are few spells that are mentioned in game that the game assumes you already have gotten. So I'm going to go on the assumption that Squall has them in his reportoire. Those spells are any choice of ice spell (Blizzard, Blizzara, and Blizzaga), sleep, and any sort of fire spell.

On top of this, Squall is put above the rest of the SeeD members alongside Seifer. To quote Squall's instructor.

"I guess I was right. You and Seifer are in a class of your own. You both
have amazing strength and potential."

Furthermore, Squall can junction any of those elements or statuses to his blade through elemental junctioning.

"There isn't much time, but let me go over this real quick."
"Good, you got yourself a GF."
"If you junction that GF, you'll be able to use the Elem-J ability."
"Here's an explanation on Elements."

Tutorial of how to junction elements in-game...

"There's a lot of Fire elemental monsters here, so junction Blizzard to your
Elem-Atk."
"You'll have an easier time with Fire elemental enemies."

So on top of peak human+ abilities, he can (atleast dialogue wise) put you to sleep while burning or freezing you.

Squall's Gunblade also acts as a vibroblade of sorts if he pulls the trigger, which allows him to cut through materials much easier.

That said I imagine Squall isn't overtly OP. He hasn't exhibited things that scream far beyond peak human except for landing from tall heights and being unharmed and battling directly after smashing full speed in a car into a sturdy metal gate.

 

[SSJ3 Gothic]

I think I know who I want for this, but it will take me a few hours to put the info together. Just so ya know I'm not leaving you hanging.

 

[SSJ3 Gothic]

@ Squall.


<div class='spoiler_toggle'>Spoiler: click to toggle</div><div class="spoiler" style="display:none;">

My client needs little introduction. This is Cloud Strife, a sword swinging original gangster, and one of the most iconic video game characters out there. Cloud is known widely as a former member of Soldier First Class and a decorated member of the Shinra army. As most of us are already aware, this is total bullshit, but regardless of his murky and muddled backstory, one thing remains clear: Cloud is a badass warrior who has defeated Sephiroth on three separate occasions.

For the most part, Cloud's favorite weapon is the Buster Sword. This is a massive two-handed blade that is shown in many of his appearances. It can cut through a variety of substances, like a motorcycle as seen in Advent Children. The Buster Sword has also been shown to be a fantastic defensive weapon, serving as a shield for enemy fire due to its great width.

Cloud is shown to have a number of Limit Breaks, or special moves, but his most powerful is Omnislash. As described by the wiki, "Omnislash hits random enemies (or one, if only one is present) 15 times under the effect of critical hits for the effect of .75x normal damage."

For his summon, I am only going to list one in particular: Bahamut SIN. This was the only summon I can justify and confirm outside of gameplay mechanics, due to its use in Advent Children. Needless to say, it's a big, scaly dragon that can shoot energy out of his mouth.

There is much more to Cloud that what is listed here. He has many more abilities that occure in game, but for now I am using an amalgam of his FF7/Advent Children self, just to make it easy. His game bio states that his specific advantage lies in having increased strength and magic, his best attributes, and the best of those two stats in the whole game (party wise).

Depeing in the length of this battle, I may call upon some of his other weapon, the Fusion Sword. Cloud has Ribbon, an item which protects him from all statued effects (sleep, poison, et cetera), but for now, I am leaving that out for the sake of a good fight.

Squall, my man, don't hate me. Originally, I wanted to use Zack Fair. After reading about him though, I found that his Limit Break was, basically, stealing other people's Limit Breaks lol. That seemed too hax, so I had to think fast.

</div>

 

[Satsuki]

I'm going out but I'll post someone when I get back

 

[SSJ3 Gothic]

I'm going out but I'll post someone when I get back

We are obviously going a bit higher than normal human tier, like I originally suggested, but this was an opportunity too good to pass up.

I have always wanted to have this one out with someone who is pro Squall. Even though I love both characters, I am a Cloud fan, and so are most of my friends.

Anyway, we can either do that one or you can jump in here. I am game for both.

 

[SSJ3 Gothic]

Squall, buddy, I imagine you have had this out many times. It's probably got heated on several occasions. I do this as a good as a good sport and in fun. I have mad respect for FF8, one of the hardest games I ever played. Took me two years to beat. I'll tell you the story sometime l0l.

Anyway, consider this an exploration on my part.

 

[Goddess Ultimecia]

Fair enough Skyrunner, but I feel we're going to be using amalgamations... it would only be fair for me to do so as well.

I present to all of you, the amalgamation of Dissidia and FF8 Squall.

Now, what use is Dissidia in a situation such as this?

"Squall, all characters are pretty much equalized in Dissidia."

True, to a point. But there are some verifiable and solid feats of Squall's from Dissidia. And here are two of them.

https://www.youtube.com/v/i0lgq3BA0wE

Running about as fast as a car alongside Sephiroth, swinging his Gunblade one handed, and able to transform his blade from the Revolver into the Lionheart at will as well as leaping in a near superhuman fashion to combat Sephiroth mid-air in a few clashes before being briefly overpowered on the third strike. The slash that Squall deflected away creates a rather large explosion nearby.

https://www.youtube.com/v/Tjd5zEPr5OI

Can summon his Revolver Gunblade out of virtually thin-air

https://www.youtube.com/v/0u9ktMHCj78

Watch the video up till 2:55 or so, it shows that even with the element of surprise. Squall still has enough quick reactions to ward off all of the shards with his pure ability alone, as well as showing how acrobatic and useful he is with his abilities.

Since we're using summons... I suppose it's only fair I use one of Squall's. One that is not only a game mechanic, but is an enemy you face brought forth from Squall's own thoughts of what the most powerful Guardian Force is... I am talking of course about Griever.

http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/Griever_(Final_Fantasy_VIII)

So basically, Love that you brought out Bahamut... but uh... he's useless here. Since Griever in this case would be capable of one-shotting him because of the fact he's a summon. That, and Griever can wipe out Cloud's magic use. His entire repertoire. Things go bad for Squall, Griever can in that case try to disspell Cloud and send him careening into time itself. If that wasn't bad enough, if Cloud doesn't end things quickly with Griever he runs the risk of getting the Great Attractor done through Griever's helixes.

https://www.youtube.com/v/ReRagcSvHHc

At around 7:35 or so. I bring that little snippet in because I recall something about Bahamut in FF7 being a moon buster or something of the sort.

So...I think this will come down to a matter of skill rather than raw power advantages.

And since we're using Limit Breaks... I suppose I should bring in what basically amounts to the Omnislash 2.0. Lionheart I should say which must be activated by Renzokuken... which can dish out seven hits off 9999, followed by Lionheart which dishes out sixteen hits of 9999. Granted it does require some charge up if he's using his FF8 version of Lionheart.

https://www.youtube.com/v/mlRnnVF7QmE

Edit: Don't worry man, the only times it gets heated is when personal insults get thrown around. And I don't either one of us would do that unless provoked.

 

[SSJ3 Gothic]

Damn! You know, I was actually using an amalgam in order to nerf him a bit. But it's all good, and you were clearly prepared lol.

I'm not familiar with Dissidia, as in I haven't played it, so I will take your word on that stuff. For my end, I'll be refering to FF7 and Advent Children for Cloud.

I have a few hours of work 2nite. Nothing major, I wash windows and clean up at a movie theature. I can still post, but I won't be able to list the full Cloud arsenal until I am done.

I know all about Griever. I plan to focus on Clouds strength and magic, and not really his summons anyway. I want to focus on his magic and stremgth, assuming I can bust around Griever's magic stopping ability.

 

[Goddess Ultimecia]

I think Raw Strength wise Cloud has a MAJOR advantage due to the Jenova cells in his body. But I think skill wise Cloud lacks in comparison to Squall. I think that's a good start off for this debate until we get Pierce's character in here.

Would you be willing to argue Cloud has more martial skill than Squall?

 

[SSJ3 Gothic]

I think Raw Strength wise Cloud has a MAJOR advantage due to the Jenova cells in his body. But I think skill wise Cloud lacks in comparison to Squall. I think that's a good start off for this debate until we get Pierce's character in here.

Would you be willing to argue Cloud has more martial skill than Squall?

Based off what I know about Cloud, and what you have posted for Squall, I would say absolutely. Cloud is the powerhouse, and the way he is portrayed seems to want to convey that idea.

Like I said, his game stats put his strength way higher than everyone else in the FF7 party.

Any problems that arise, he seems to handle them by chopping the shit out of it, lol. In all seriousness, this is true if you watch most of the material about Cloud.

Omnislash is by far his most powerful move. Any and all versions of it, as there are several.

How did he first kill Sephiroth? He stabbed him.

I've never seen him use a spell or summon outside of my own gameplay. ALWAYS has a big ass sword though lol. Correct me if I am wrong, but even in Kingdom Hearts, didn't Squall at least have a few scenes without the gunblade? Not Cloud. He got a new giant sword, in terms of design.

I mentioned this before, but the only magic I can 100% confirm he owns is Bahamut SIN, due to Kadaj having hijacked Cloud's materia. And even when this happens, Cloud really doesn't seem to care.

Kajaj summons Bahamut. Every single member of the FF7 team punches it yet causes no damage. Cloud shows up and says, "Imma punch it by myself". Climmhazzard. End of Battle.

There are so many instances of this, but I think you get my point. Cloud is meant to deal heavy damage by way of physical attacks, and all scenes featuring him point to this.

I want to post some changes for Cloud later today. He needs the Fusion Sword, which in turn will upgrade his Limit Break. Although, would you agree that both Squall and Cloud's limit breaks basically cancel each other out? It's the same move let's be honest, even though both men do it well.

Clous has a few other limit breaks that are worth mentioning. If you are okay with me using multiple limit breaks, I only plan to use ones I have seen on more than one occasion. Braver, for instance, was in FF7 and AC, so I think its fair to list.

 

[Satsuki]

Alright I'm going with a different kind of character here this time, just to make it interesting.

<div class='spoiler_toggle'>Kusanagi Godou</div><div class="spoiler" style="display:none;">

Oh yah das hawt^

Kusanagi Godou is what is known as a Campione. When a mortal slays a Heretic God, they take upon themselves the Authorities of that Heretic God, and they become Campione.

Generally, a Campione will only acquire one Authority from the god they slay, which is influenced by the personality, compatibility, and skill of the Campione. Though there are rare exceptions such as the seventh Campione, Godou Kusanagi. In that case, the Authority adjusted to fit the his own nature. Often losing elements or gaining limitations or requirements for use that the god didn't have.

Now that sounds really powerful, but it really isn't all that crazy, espcially because Godou has a lot of limitations on his powers. Godou slayed the god Verethragna and took on his "Ten Incarnations," or powers. Here is what they are and their limitations:

- Tempest (Gale)
The Gale Incarnation gives Godou the power to go anywhere instantly, even traveling between the Netherworld and the world of the living.

The condition for use is that someone there who knows him personally and is in danger must call out his name to summon him to that location.

- Bull
From the Bull, Godou gains immense strength, rivalling that of Hercules.

Can only be used against something with inhuman strength, like a bear, or an object with a large mass coming at him, like a train or boulder.
Grants no more strength than the amount necessary to counter the opponent.
When facing someone with strength within human means, like a body builder, "Bull" won't activate.

- White Stallion
By using the White Stallion, Godou is able to summon a burning horse, bearing the power of the Sun to incinerate enemies.

It can only be used against those who have committed great sins against the people.
It is considered Godou's most potent attack

- Camel
Camel gives Godou an increase in combat abilities, leg strength, defense, battle instincts, and self-recovery. Godou can send magical power to his foot as he kick causing an explosion.

Stated to be one of the Incarnations most associated with Earth, along with the Bull.
The condition to allow it to be used is that Godou must suffer a certain level of injury.

- Boar (we can leave this one out, might be too much)
Summons a giant boar Divine Beast, which is believed to embody Godou's destructive impulses, to trample everything in its path. Its power seems to surpass that of normal Divine Beasts, being an Incarnation of a god rather than its servant, allowing it enough power to injure or possibly even slay Heretic Gods.

It must be targeted at a large stucture or enemy for the Incarnation to be activated.
While in use, Godou gains increased speed, defense, and strength, but it can only be used in a direct charge.
Its roar is powerful enough to create shockwaves capable of shattering glass and damaging nearby buildings. At full power, these roars can even scatter the clouds in the sky.
The Boar can be used as an attack or as a steed.
The Boar can cover its body in intensely burning flames.
If Godou attempts to banish it before its purpose is fulfilled, it might fight against him. This indicates Godou has yet to fully master that Authority.

- Adolescent (Youth)
Allows Godou to enter a calm state of mind and grant the divine protection of the god of Victory to others, giving them the vitality of a Campione, and magical protection.

- Bird of Prey (Raptor)
The Raptor Form gives Godou godspeed, or god-like speed, as well as a body of extreme lightness. It can also slow him down just as much.

The condition in using this is that he must be attacked by a quick strike exceeding normal parameters or stating the chant. (Things like bullets, ambushed by crazed wild beasts, or an attack from an accomplished martial artist are sufficient to activate the Raptor.)
While using this Form, as long as he can carry it with his two hands, objects will become light as well.
If Godou over uses this ability, it will cause him extreme chest pain and paralysis. A short use, however, doesn't cause this problem.

- Ram
The Ram offers miraculous powers of recovery that allows him to resurrect himself from the dead, and recover from his injuries in the process.

The effect is not instantaneous, and it will take some time before he awakens. Two and a half hours has been the fastest time.
It must be activated before the moment he dies, or he will die permanently.

- Goat
The Goat grants absolute control over Lightning, allows him to listen to the hearts of the people, and bestows to him priestly authority and wisdom. This also grants him the ability of Psychic Sensing.

Godou may only use this power if there are people at the location who wish to stand with him and be his strength, only then will it activate. It also hinted that it drains actual life force from both the user and the companions, making it dangerous to use.

- Warrior
Allows Godou to create countless Golden Swords that have the ability to remove the divinity of any God, making them a mortal, thus negating their divine Authorities.

Godou can only use it if he has sufficient knowledge of the enemy, or the divinity the enemy's Authority is drawn from.
The Golden Sword is made to fit the specific god (or the Authority of the god in the case of a Campione) he is facing, using the knowledge of that god.
If necessary, the Golden Sword can be adapted to affect a second god, though only if the two gods share enough characteristics such as both being earth gods or gods of steel. However, the sword will be less effective on the second god. Adapting it like this is difficult and draining for Godou.
If the Heretic God manifests different aspects of itself, the sword created will only be able to negate one aspect of the god, leaving the other untouched.
It is suggested that the sword can exorcise Heretic Gods from those they possess.
The Golden Sword can also be made into an organism such as a ferocious Golden Snake, the Golden Snake can also be use as a steed to use to fly.
Also grants him increased combat skills by allowing him to see through his enemies' attacks and magic, magnifying a Campione's natural's instincts.

Godou uses this attack the most, well because he fights Gods only haha. This is pretty useless in this fight


So this might seem like a lot, but if you look at the limitations, he can't use some of these. His fighting ability is solid but he isn't a martial arts master or anything. Thoughts? I can bring in someone else if need be, just wanted to go a different route here.</div>

 

[Goddess Ultimecia]

I gotcha, so Cloud's more a brute than a skilled warrior of the blade and song. I think Squall's got him beat in the skill department, seeing as how he's the commander of an elite mercenary group who sends kids to fight off invading armies from towns. I'd imagine that getting hit from Cloud would wreck Squall up something fierce, but I'm also confident that if it came to hand to hand, Squall would likely not hesitate to try and cut off leverage for Cloud. The way I see it, Cloud would be Brock Lesnar while Squall would be something akin to Fedor Emelianenko. Cloud's raw power tends to make up for his lack of finesse while Squall's finesse I feel would make up for his lack of raw power. His finesse can be seen by his fighting style in Dissidia where he's light on his feet, quick and sweet, and gets out quickly, ready to remeet. Although in Dissidia Squall also uses lightning attacks that suck you in or force you away if you're ok with adding that to Squall's repertoire here.

I haven't even played Kingdom Hearts in all honesty. I just like Squall-er, Leon's design in there. I do remember though that in Kingdom Hearts Squall and Cloud are treated as being somewhat equal whenever they meet. Even throwing around some light-hearted jokes about it being too much (in a sarcastic fashion) when they're both surrounded by heartless.

I'll say that the upgraded version of Omnislash would essentially cancel out Lionheart, although you still gotta deal with Renzokuken being the pre-requisite.

Braver is also used in Dissidia, as well as meteor and other FF7 Limit Breaks. Cloud's EX Attack is Omnislash while Squall's is Lionheart. Both of these are basically quicker, lesser versions of their main game counterparts though.

I feel that this is too close for me to allow Cloud to have multiple Limit Breaks without Squall getting his too, sorry if that seems a tad selfish. I'll go ahead and post Squall's FF8 Limit Breaks in video format because some of them I feel could definitely do some major damage if they connect.

https://www.youtube.com/v/GetDqKW8zYk

His Dissidia counterparts are essentially quick charge versions of these.

Fated Circle

Rough Divide (Can do in both mid-air and on the ground, he essentially bum rushes you while flying with an enhanced slash.

Blasting Zone

Revolver Drive (Essentially turns himself into a spinning drill of Gunblade and magic)

Aerial Circle (Basically the aerial version of Fated Circle)

In Dissidia he also showcases the fact he can use his spells as sorts of mines...

Edit: Ohhh... looks like Squall might need to partner up with someone... and we might need our summons too... I say this because Squall and Cloud are most certainly above regular human limits when it comes to strength and speed. So alot of those are probably going to be activated.

I should ask you Othinus, what are some of the feats of your character?

 

[Satsuki]

Let's see here.

https://www.youtube.com/v/zI8f0VFHmAk

16:28 on is where a fight starts and you can see some of his abilities in action

https://www.youtube.com/v/48vxPFBqMBQ

17:48 is where he uses a good attack as well, considered his most potent.

 

[Goddess Ultimecia]

Yeah, I'm confident in Squall's ability to face someone one on one... but not exactly too confident in group battles. Squall's already at a disadvantage strength wise in comparison to both Cloud and Kusanagi, and Squall would technically count as low-tier superhuman in regards to speed/reactions and I'm almost certain the military academy would have taught him a fair bit in hand to hand. So I think Kusanagi's limitations (atleast most of them) would probably be released.

At that point, it's in Squall's best interest to team up with either one of Cloud or Kusanagi. I don't know how Kusanagi is in regards to listening to others, but I do know Cloud in almost every one of the times he meets with Squall, has shown alot of apprehension to teaming up...