Advanced Hardening?

[Future Warrior]

No if it was outward Haki, Luffy would just be sent flying back like with Sentomaru. His fist wouldn’t be in pain like that.

 

[SSJ2]

Lv 2 Busoshoku didn't have that effect on Kaido tho

 

[Future Warrior]

In what instance?

 

[SSJ2]

I'll check later, but when the scabbards were attacking Kaido they used level 2 Busoshoku, and it merely allowed them to cut deeper into Kaido than if they didn't have it.

 

[Future Warrior]

We don't know what they're using. It's something they learned from Oden but we haven't been given enough clues on what that is.

 

[SSJ2]

Well, it's definitely an advanced form of Busoshoku as Kaido was shocked they could hurt him. G4 Luffy couldn't hurt him with regular Busoshoku when he first fought Kaido. When the scabbards fight with Kaido, it shows Oden teaching them Haki in the past. Considering the fact that Hyogoro was familiar with the advanced form of Haki that Luffy assumed would hurt Kaido, and then we saw the Scabbards actually being able to hurt him, it seems pretty clear that they are using emission.

 

[Future Warrior]

Luffy assumed that emission was able to hurt Kaido which he was wrong about. Internal Destruction was the one that mattered.

 

[SSJ2]

No, even internal destruction didn't matter, as he stated when he first caught onto advanced Haoshoku. It was advanced Busoshoku that allowed him to perform better during the raid in G4.

 

[Future Warrior]

Your not making any sense. It mattered in that it was able to damage him at least. He believed that emission was the key and he was right because it let to internal destruction.

 

[SSJ2]

What do you mean I'm not making sense?

 

[Future Warrior]

Your interpretation of the story is wrong.

Internal Destruction is what's needed to hurt him. But forming a barrier like Hyogoro doesn't do jack against Kaido's outer skin. You need to go a step beyond that.

 

[SSJ2]

That's not what I'm saying though. I'm saying that regular emission is enough to do surface level damage like the scabbards were shown doing. Regular haki cannot do this. Level 3 was enough to hurt Kaido, but Luffy himself stated that it wasn't deep enough.



The point being that neither were enough to do anything of note to Kaido, but both proved to be significantly more effective than regular Busoshoku as seen in Luffy vs Kaido 1. With how weak you think the scabbards are, tell me how they were able to physically damage Kaido with Haki below emission level? Why was Kaido as well as his subordinates making such a big deal out of their ability to damage him? It's because they were using advanced Busoshoku. That's what Oda is conveying. But evidently they aren't using something as advanced as level 3 as even Hyogoro wasn't aware of how to do it. Level 2 is as far as it goes in Wano, Oden included.

 

[Future Warrior]

And I'm saying that's wrong because emission isn't inherently better than hardening. It's just another way of using Armament Haki that uses the principle of ''flow''. The only truly ''advanced'' CoA we've seen is internal destruction. It doesn't even make sense that you can use ''emission'' on a blade. Where is the barrier then if the blade is actually touching you?

But evidently they aren't using something as advanced as level 3 as even Hyogoro wasn't aware of how to do it.

Awfully strange for him not to be aware of it when he described it's function perfectly to Luffy.

 

[SSJ2]

It is though, Luffy is the one who is positive it would be better than regular Busoshoku.

Hyogoro then tells Luffy about Ryuo, how it can be infused with the blade, and then directly after he demonstrates the exact type of Haki that Luffy is looking for. Why would Hyogoro even demonstrate this type if he wasn't capable of using it with a blade? Why wouldn't he specify that the type of Ryou he was about to use is different from what he could use with a sword?

Spoiler

As for your question about emission and swords, it's simply a step behind destruction. Emission allows Haki to flow through the sword and enter the enemy for greater damage, as Luffy thought it would be able to damage Kaido. It enters but does not self destruct.

 

[SSJ2]

Awfully strange for him not to be aware of it when he described it's function perfectly to Luffy.

Well he did just witness it.

 

[Future Warrior]

Well Luffy was technically right because emission and internal destruction uses the same principle of Ryou. So learning emission was the right choice to beat Kaido because of what it lead to.

 

[SSJ2]

But he also wasn't wrong about it being more effective against Kaido, it simply wasn't enough.

 

[Future Warrior]

It feels like we're going in circles here. You have no proof that the scabbards are using emission to deal damage to Kaido.

 

[SSJ2]

Ok. I've backed up my claim with evidence that might seem contextual, but at least I'm using established concepts in the story to do so. The scabbards using some phantom type of Haki that only they and Oden knew is what isn't implied, nor can you provide proof of it.

 

[Future Warrior]

If you were using established concepts then you would know Katakuri shouldn't be using emission when the whole point of the technique is to ''not touch''. That already destroys your whole point.

This whole debate is meaningless unless you can find me an instance where someone uses it while physically touching somebody. Your assumptions about the scabbards don't count.