Analyzing different Kid Buu's possibilities (manga only)

Natasha Romanoff

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Sure. Goku was no longer a threat to Kid Buu at that point. Nothing contradicts the idea that Goku could kill Kid Buu with a Full Power blast.
How did Kid Buu knows that...? Did Kid Buu felt overwhelmed or pressured while fighting Goku, or was the complete opposite...? Goku was fighting all-out and was failing.

Gohan's genki given to its very limits was not powerful enough to kill Kid Buu, it's not like Goku proved his jactancy as something correct, either... Also, considering Kid Buu's insane regeneration makes the notion even more absurd.
 
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Goku9001

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How did Kid Buu knows that...? Did Kid Buu felt overwhelmed or pressured while fighting Goku, or was the complete opposite...? Goku was fighting all-out and was failing.

Gohan's genki given to its very limits was not powerful enough to kill Kid Buu, it's not like Goku proved his jactancy as something correct, either... Also, considering Kid Buu's insane regeneration makes the notion even more absurd.
Because Goku couldn't do enough damage and was tiring out...
 

Natasha Romanoff

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That he could just regenerate from...
And clearly wasn't powerful enough to overwhelm Kid Buu, he was still confident in his regenerative capabilities.

Either way, are you going to address the whole point or just send short messages? Don't make me lose my time.
 

Goku9001

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And clearly wasn't powerful enough to overwhelm Kid Buu, he was still confident in his regenerative capabilities.

Either way, are you going to address the whole point or just send short messages? Don't make me lose my time.
Don't do what Feats does. I also have limited time as well and prefer getting straight to the point.

I'm not addressing everything because I genuinely think the bottom line is that both Goku and Vegeta firmly believe that a full power blast from SSJ3 Goku can kill Kid Buu after Goku already fought Kid Buu. Your counterclaim isn't proof because Goku never got the chance to do a full power blast. Thus, we can only go based on the information we are given.

Vegeta claims that only Goku can fight against Kid Buu, Kid Buu is clearly shown gritting his teeth, Kid Buu shows signs of damage and scuff marks as he fights Goku, and Goku is frustrated because Kid Buu's power never drops. Nothing here indicates that Goku was far off from Kid Buu, if at all. Your argument is genuinely making it seem as though Goku and Vegeta can't even evaluate powers properly.
 

Natasha Romanoff

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I'm not addressing everything because I genuinely think the bottom line is that both Goku and Vegeta firmly believe that a full power blast from SSJ3 Goku can kill Kid Buu after Goku already fought Kid Buu. Your counterclaim isn't proof because Goku never got the chance to do a full power blast. Thus, we can only go based on the information we are given.
And those same Goku & Vegeta also agreed that not even Gohan's energy given to its very limits could make the job, then we have two contradictory statements, but statements can't override facts.

For your premise to be true we have to go by "Goku has to be right", not because he was proven to be right.
Vegeta claims that only Goku can fight against Kid Buu, Kid Buu is clearly shown gritting his teeth, Kid Buu shows signs of damage and scuff marks as he fights Goku, and Goku is frustrated because Kid Buu's power never drops. Nothing here indicates that Goku was far off from Kid Buu, if at all. Your argument is genuinely making it seem as though Goku and Vegeta can't even evaluate powers properly.
The fight goes down like this: Kid Buu regenerates from Goku's Kamehameha, then he gives an elbow that doesn't do much, Kid Buu use his leg to kick him, tries to fire a blast but Goku avoid it using IT, then proceeds to kick him, regain posture and proceeds to punch him in the face making him bleed, then they traded blows, managed to launch a kick, proceeds to bit him, which Goku does too, use his chocolate beam, Kid Buu's copy his Kamehameha while laughing, Goku does the same, proceeds to spit bleed and Kid Buu regenerates, then Kid Buu proceeds to dance.

Doesn't give the impression like he is treating him as a threat at all, while Goku was willing to go all-out since the very beginning. Since Vegeta is too weak to fight any form of Majin Buu it makes sense for Goku to be the only one capable of fighting Kid Buu.

0316-008.jpg

Goku thought that the Genkidama would kill Vegeta, but ended failing on killing a heavily injured Vegeta at the end with half of it, Goku believed that the Genkidama could kill Freeza and that Freeza was telling him lies when he says that he is using just half of his power, just to realize he was telling him the truth and end failing, thing is, that your premise is inconclusive if we go by the merit it holds.
 
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Goku9001

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And those same Goku & Vegeta also agreed that not even Gohan's energy given to its very limits could make the job, then we have two contradictory statements, but statements can't override facts.

For your premise to be true we have to go by "Goku has to be right", not because he was proven to be right.

The fight goes down like this: Kid Buu regenerates from Goku's Kamehameha, then he gives an elbow that doesn't do much, Kid Buu use his leg to kick him, tries to fire a blast but Goku avoid it using IT, then proceeds to kick him, regain posture and proceeds to punch him in the face making him bleed, then they traded blows, managed to launch a kick, proceeds to bit him, which Goku does too, use his chocolate beam, Kid Buu's copy his Kamehameha while laughing, Goku does the same, proceeds to spit bleed and Kid Buu regenerates, then Kid Buu proceeds to dance.

Doesn't give the impression like he is treating him as a threat at all, while Goku was willing to go all-out since the very beginning. Since Vegeta is too weak to fight any form of Majin Buu it makes sense for Goku to be the only one capable of fighting Kid Buu.


Goku thought that the Genkidama would kill Vegeta, but ended failing on killing a heavily injured Vegeta at the end with half of it, Goku believed that the Genkidama could kill Freeza and that Freeza was telling him lies when he says that he is using just half of his power, just to realize he was telling him the truth and end failing, thing is, that your premise is inconclusive if we go by the merit it holds.
No one is saying Kid Buu was in any danger but it's patently clear from the example you provided that Super Saiyan 3 Goku was able to fight well against him. I'm not seeing anything that places Kid Buu that much stronger than SSJ3 Goku if at all. Vegeta was watching him battle and concluded that only Goku could face up to him. It doesn't matter if Goku was the strongest one there, Vegeta is blatantly admitting that Goku could actually fight back which is what we actually see.

This leads to why Goku and Vegeta actually believe a Full Power blast can kill Kid Buu. It's what the narrative is suggesting and Goku/Vegeta both saw what Kid Buu was capable of from seeing him in action. There's literally nothing that suggests that a fully charged blast from Goku wouldn't be able to kill Kid Buu. It's a matter of taking the narrative for what it is rather than inserting your own subtext into it.
 

Natasha Romanoff

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No one is saying Kid Buu was in any danger but it's patently clear from the example you provided that Super Saiyan 3 Goku was able to fight well against him. I'm not seeing anything that places Kid Buu that much stronger than SSJ3 Goku if at all. Vegeta was watching him battle and concluded that only Goku could face up to him. It doesn't matter if Goku was the strongest one there, Vegeta is blatantly admitting that Goku could actually fight back which is what we actually see.
We were debating wheter Kid Buu considered Goku as a threat or not, it was clearly proven as an exagerated claim. The best we can say is that Goku was holding his own to an exent against Buu, even though this same Buu was explicitely said by Goku to be toying around with him:

Chapter: 510 (DBZ 310) P13.1
Context: after one of Goku's attacks damage Boo
Goku: " That bastard... Even though he can quickly return to normal, he's playing around by purposefully drawing it out..."
*Boo is clearly lollygaging*

Compared to how Goku said he is going all-out since the beginning:

Chapter: 509 (DBZ 315), P11.4-6
Context: as Goku prepares to fight pure Boo
Goku: "Alri~~iight. I'd better go all out right from the start...! If we get done it, the entire universe will go 'poof'..."

It's a clamurous lie to think that both were evenly matched. Vegeta's analogy is nothing different from Trunks thinking that SSJ Vegeta is fighting on par with 18.
This leads to why Goku and Vegeta actually believe a Full Power blast can kill Kid Buu. It's what the narrative is suggesting and Goku/Vegeta both saw what Kid Buu was capable of from seeing him in action. There's literally nothing that suggests that a fully charged blast from Goku wouldn't be able to kill Kid Buu. It's a matter of taking the narrative for what it is rather than inserting your own subtext into it.
So, what? Gohan watched 3rd form Freeza speedblitzing Piccolo, and then yelled him to die, but Freeza end pushing back his blast. Observing someone fighting doesn't make you determine wheter you can actually defeat it, specially if the opponent is taking you light and toying with you.

In the statement:

Goku can kill Kid Buu if he gathers all of his ki in SSJ3

SSJ3 Goku's full ki blast > Kid Buu

In the fact:

Kid Buu > Gohan's genki given to it's very limits

Facts > Statements

Your premise was that I thought that Goku and Vegeta can't evaluate powers properly, well, they had been shown being carefree before and failing on whatever they were claiming, you just forget about the things so rapidly, even though it were scripted not so much above.
 
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Goku9001

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@Natasha Romanoff

Those statements aren't proof that Kid Buu is stronger. No one denies that Kid Buu can deal with Super Saiyan 3 Goku. While Goku receives damage and his ki declines, Buu is completely fresh and acts as though nothing happened. At that point, Goku is no longer a threat.

On what basis can Goku not kill Buu with a Full Power blast? It's your word against the narrative pal. Instead of dancing around the subject, I will need proof that Goku cannot pull it off.
 

Natasha Romanoff

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@Natasha Romanoff

Those statements aren't proof that Kid Buu is stronger. No one denies that Kid Buu can deal with Super Saiyan 3 Goku. While Goku receives damage and his ki declines, Buu is completely fresh and acts as though nothing happened. At that point, Goku is no longer a threat.

On what basis can Goku not kill Buu with a Full Power blast? It's your word against the narrative pal. Instead of dancing around the subject, I will need proof that Goku cannot pull it off.
So, Goku conceding his inferiority against Kid Buu isn't proof of anything...? Goku considering that not even Gohan's genki given to it's very limits can do the job isn't proof of anything? Goku saying that Kid Buu is toying with him isn't proof of anything? Are you serious...?

Either way, your comment is nonsensical and you're just in denial for a strange reason XD.
 
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Goku9001

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So, Goku conceding his inferiority against Kid Buu isn't proof of anything...? Goku considering that not even Gohan's genki given to it's very limits can do the job isn't proof of anything? Goku saying that Kid Buu is toying with him isn't proof of anything? Are you serious...?

Either way, your comment is nonsensical and you're just in denial for a strange reason XD.
Why are you laughing? I haven't said anything offensive to you.
 

Natasha Romanoff

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Why are you laughing? I haven't said anything offensive to you.
At least not in this thread, but the way you phrase it makes me believe you're just in denial, you acted like someone who had nothing else to offer, other than being a bit sarcastic, I'll give you that.
 
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Goku9001

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At least not in this thread, but the way you phrase it makes me believe you're just in denial, you acted like someone who had nothing else to offer, other than being a bit sarcastic, I'll give you that.
What I'm saying is that it's not proof because Kid Buu's unique body granted him significant advantages in his fight with Goku. Goku explicitly complained that Kid Buu kept bouncing back with no issues because Kid Buu's ki never drops and he can mitigate damage via regeneration. Those are the only advantages we are shown during their fight. Otherwise, Goku and Kid Buu were shown to be practically equal (we're even given extreme close-up shots of them trading blows) unlike the case with Good Buu and Vegeta where they are blatantly being overpowered and toyed with.

We don't know how genki translates to battle power so I wouldn't use Gohan as definitive proof.
 

Natasha Romanoff

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What I'm saying is that it's not proof because Kid Buu's unique body granted him significant advantages in his fight with Goku. Goku explicitly complained that Kid Buu kept bouncing back with no issues because Kid Buu's ki never drops and he can mitigate damage via regeneration. Those are the only advantages we are shown during their fight. Otherwise, Goku and Kid Buu were shown to be practically equal (we're even given extreme close-up shots of them trading blows) unlike the case with Good Buu and Vegeta where they are blatantly being overpowered and toyed with.
What advantages it gives him if he can be damaged by every single attack is given to him...? Unlike Goku, who has a pretty tenacious and durable body? And on top of that, Buu is the one that has a smaller body? I mean, yes, Buu won because of stamina advantage, who cares? SSJ Goku defeated Freeza because he couldn't control his 100%, SSJ Vegeta lost to 18 because of stamina disadvantage, that doesn't mean Freeza or Vegeta weren't weaker than Goku or 18. Goku was doing better than Vegeta & Buu, even though he wasn't doing anything good and was getting mocked.

A real equally fight of stamina disadvantage vs stamina advantage would be Piccolo vs 17; both of them were trading blows evenly and were enjoying to fight... in the fight between Goku and Kid Buu, Goku was getting mocked, getting suffocated and nervous, whereas Kid Buu was smiling, relaxed and calm.
We don't know how genki translates to battle power so I wouldn't use Gohan as definitive proof.
God... Genki and ki are practically the same... both means energy in japanese.

Gohan not only use genki to give energy, but with every attack he use...
 
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