Bardock

[Pocket-God]

Simple enough question, is he canon?
If so, are both Episode of Bardock and Father of Goku canon?

 

[Papasmurf]

The only canon depictions of him are those from DB Minus and the two panels of him in the actual DB manga. Episode of Bardock was written and drawn by Naho Ooishi and adapted into a special by Toei while the other special was almost entirely Toei as well.

 

[Pocket-God]

So Bardock is canon but the two specials are not?

 

[Papasmurf]

Pretty much. Freeza recognizes Goku's similarity to Bardock when he encounters him in the manga, incorporating him into the manga canon. But the two specials weren't written by AT, so they're non-canon.

 

[Pocket-God]

Oh okay then, well thanks for the info.

 

[Let's Go Fearless!]

Yes

Spoiler

Spoiler

 

[Keedounan]

Simple enough question, is he canon?
If so, are both Episode of Bardock and Father of Goku canon?

Bardock is canon, but the two specials aren't.

 

[Fantastische Hure]

AT did make a statement that kind-of indicated it can be canon, but that was back in 1991 so who knows now.

Toriyama:
That special was good. I cried. How come you can make a story so much better than the original manga? (laughs)

Koyama:
But after that, you made use of the setting from that time in the original manga, and I was truly grateful.

Toriyama:
Well, that’s because I wanted to use it, no matter what…
If you think about it, it’s a story that’s connected to the setting of the original manga as a whole.
Toriyama:
But I really thought, “So that’s how it was.” That last scene was really sad.

Source: http://www.kanzenshuu.com/2016/04/11/new-translation-1991-dbz-anime-special-2-super-anime-jin-roundtable-interview-discussion/

I take that over what he says now though, so to me that's that.

 

[Papasmurf]

True, but unlike Super and the new movies AT didn't write the story himself, he just really liked it. When he drew his version of the story in DB Minus (even though it sucked ) Bardock was entirely different, so yeah.

 

[Fantastische Hure]

That's the same AT that had his in-put into RoF. I can't take that.

AT in his prime is much more reliable and consistent. He didn't care after DragonBall ended. He green-lighted stuff like Episode of Bardock and DragonBall GT for Gawd's sake.

 

[Papasmurf]

Him only incorporating those 2 panels of Bardock's death into the manga from a special he didn't write himself is undeniable however.

Not saying AT's new stuff like Jaco/DB Minus is any better, just saying that AT only contributed designs like filler and the movies.

 

[Fantastische Hure]

Whilst that's true what to do if AT did at one point consider the special to happen in the canon/manga universe? Do we still say it's not canon because AT didn't write that? I mean this isn't a case like the Daizenshuu or even Episode of Bardock where he just green-lit it because whatever, like he probably didn't read any of it and just wanted more money out of DragonBall. The TV-Special he liked so much he did that and even said so himself.

 

[Pyro]

He says he accepted FoG's vision as the manga's story, so that version of events is canon IMO.

 

[Papasmurf]

I accept that he accepted the character of Bardock and incorporated him into the canon, but taking any more from the film is reaching imo since it had almost no participation from AT just like the Trunks TV special. And while AT did his own version much later, it too differed considerably from the TV special similar to how his original version of Trunks' backstory was very different from Toei's version

I am willing to compromise and say Bardock's death and his last actions (as seen in the manga) are canon and connected to the setting of the manga, but the specific details in the special like him fighting Dodoria and learning to see the future are out of Toei's ass.

 

[Fantastische Hure]

Well I did post a bit above that might indicate that he at one point thought the special happens in the same universe as the manga.

But maybe he meant it differently. 1 1 1

 

[Papasmurf]

The scene in the special where a naked kid Goku gets picked up by Gohan is tied directly to the anime, so I don't think so 1 1

 

[Fantastische Hure]

What?

Do you mean just because that scene wasn't in the manga it's not canon?

 

[Jerk Store]

Of course he's canon, everybody knows he was a brilliant scientist!

 

[Papasmurf]

What?

Do you mean just because that scene wasn't in the manga it's not canon?

AT's depiction shows Goku with armor (which makes more sense considering he was supposed to be a warrior)

 

[withheldforprivacy]

The scene in the special where a naked kid Goku gets picked up by Gohan is tied directly to the anime, so I don't think so 1 1

If it involves a naked boy, it's definitely in AT's canon.