Base Saiyan / Piccolo Discussion

[FeatsofPower]

Is it possible that Base Goku = Warm up Ssj Goku?

Could it be that massive of a gap? Piccolo could then be quite powerful I'd say, easily eclipsing many characters.

Is it possible the boys are just so severely weak compared to the adults, that they did a massive power up which got them to Cell Jr level, but were way weaker before?

If Base Goku is this strong, which he would have to be for Piccolo to have any real boost, then is there any real problems despite the boys being very weak?

Base Goku could be the absolute monster he is depicted being while making Piccolo as strong as possible, at least to a respectable level.

Then the boys massive Post Rosat gains could make some sense at least.

Piccolo completely outperforms a tired SSJ Goku. Now we know SSJ Kid Trunks was getting manhandled by Base Future Gohan while SSJ Trunks is supposed to be able to surpass SSJ Gohan soon. So SSJ form can be weakened quite a bit, MSSJ Goku is probably very weak at this point. Probably weaker than his Warm Up Power by a good margin.

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

It’s better to keep Piccolo weak. You might make Base Gohan bump into SSJ Goten if he’s too close.

I can see the boys making moderate gains in the Rosat, but not more than doubling their powers. No evidence for such power up.

 

[FeatsofPower]

I can see the boys making moderate gains in the Rosat, but not more than doubling their powers. No evidence for such power up.

Base Gotenks Post > Ssj Gotenks Pre would be that evidence.

It’s better to keep Piccolo weak. You might make Base Gohan bump into SSJ Goten if he’s too close.

Well let's try it out and see what we can come up with. We have to break out of this "oh the numbers don't look good" mold and just pursue valid power chains.

Why can't Piccolo be above Super Vegeta? What's limiting him? Nothing really? And we can still have Base Goku > Piccolo. That's all still possible.

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

Base Gotenks Post > Ssj Gotenks Pre would be that evidence.

Wouldn’t Piccolo have noticed the boys are that much stronger even before fusing?

Well let's try it out and see what we can come up with. We have to break out of this "oh the numbers don't look good" mold and just pursue valid power chains.

So you don’t think there’s nothing wrong if SSJ Goten is just 2x Base Gohan?

 

[FeatsofPower]

Wouldn’t Piccolo have noticed the boys are that much stronger even before fusing?

I think they are likely hiding their true power to sell it. Remember they are all about showmanship at this point.

So you don’t think there’s nothing wrong if SSJ Goten is just 2x Base Gohan?

Sure there's something wrong with every option. There might be something to be gained by trying this route out. It might make us less anxious about giving Piccolo his due.

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

So how strong is Piccolo then? Super Vegeta level?

 

[FeatsofPower]

So how strong is Piccolo then? Super Vegeta level?

Let's make Base Goku = Warm Up Goku and work from there. I can't imagine making Goku any higher than that right now. Imagine Base Goku fighting toe to toe with someone who one shotted Super Vegeta? Honestly, it doesn't seem too far fetched now.

It doesn't seem like there will be enough room to make him quite over Super Vegeta, but we can play around with that basic range I'm sure.



Base Goku/Warm Up Cell 100
Super Vegeta 50
Piccolo 40

Possible? This makes the Cell Jrs incredibly strong. Unless we go with a vastly smaller multiplier. Honestly, the small multiplier seems to be the most appealing option the more I'm looking at things. A 5x boost might be great.

 

[SIAD]

Let's make Base Goku = Warm Up Goku

Goku Base (CG)?

 

[FeatsofPower]

Goku Base (C

Yes

 

[Yoshi]

Piccolo Post ROSAT is at best in rivaling range of Imperfect Cell and Android #16. His comments about Semi Perfect Cell’s power are pretty telling, IMO.

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

This is the usual scale:

Piccolo: 1
Kaioshin: 1.5
Pui Pui: 2
Gohan: 2.5
Vegeta: 3
Goku: 3.75

Piccolo = FP Semi Cell

FP Semi Cell: 1
Super Vegeta: 1.5
Perfect Cell: 3
Ultra Trunks: 7 or 14 (10x boost)

SSJ Goku (50%): 56.25
~ 100%: 112.5

Cell Jrs: 75

I don’t think Warm up Goku = Base Goku is needed. Perfect Cell is multiple times above Semi Cell, CG Goku doesn’t have to be more than 2x Piccolo. Needless complication.

 

[FeatsofPower]

I don’t think Warm up Goku = Base Goku is needed. Perfect Cell is multiple times above Semi Cell, CG Goku doesn’t have to be more than 2x Piccolo. Needless complication.

The point was to give us our absolute top end of what Piccolo's power could be combining his super strong Cell Games suggestions and his super weak Buu Saga suggestions.

I'd say the ultimate limit would be using Base Goku CG = Warm Up Goku as our limit and just play around with it and see if we end up with one or two things we actually like.