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This is one of the "wowest" things you might see. I am here, going to prove that Base Vegeta (ToP Arc) is superior to his SsjB Counterpart from chapter 19. Just when you'd think the anime is the only medium which has such a thing, the Manga ends up following it. For this to even remotely work, we are going to use the multipliers for Ssj and Ssj2 from the Super Exciting Guide AS WELL as using the estimated range for the SsjB multiplier given to us by implications from the Universe 6 arc which I'll also be posting down.
Super Saiyan + Super Saiyan 2 Multipliers:
Super Saiyan Blue Multiplier Range:
Ssj Goku Black after getting Zenkai started beating up Vegeta's SsjB. At first Ssj2 Vegeta and Ssj Goku Black were completely even and no difference in their power was even shown, and if anything Vegeta had the upper hand as he was laughing all the time while Goku Black was struggling:
As soon as Goku Black gets a Zenkai, his power increases to the point that in just Ssj, he can fight evenly while holding a slight advantage against SsjB Vegeta:
Vegeta enters the ROSAT and trains hard enough that his regular SsjG form beats SsjR Goku Black which is his SsjB form. Your reasoning about Vegeta going SsjG is honestly laughable, mind you. He didn't utilize the SsjB power, he decided to use a weaker form because it wastes less stamina, as opposed to what happened in the universe 6 arc, but only momentarily uses its power.
As a SsjG, he's capable of dodging multiple attacks from Goku Black, but he switches to Blue to fight Goku Black. His SsjB Form became powerful enough to easily Shitstomp Goku Black. Trunks states that he's fodder to Goku Black and refers to Base Black because he said he didn't go Super Saiyan for a long time, and we already see base black dominating Trunks's Full Power.
Since SsjB Vegeta Chp. 22 > SsjR Goku Black and both forms are equal in general, then Ssj Vegeta Chp. 22 > Ssj Goku Black > SsjB Vegeta Chp. 19
So at this point, Ssj Vegeta has surpassed his earlier SsjB form. Base Vegeta Chp.22 > SsjG Vegeta Chp. 19 is uncertain because the difference between SsjG and SsjB is lower than the difference between Base form and Ssj, therefore it's left unquantifiable, but Ssj Vegeta Chp. 22 > SsjB Vegeta Chp. 19 is set in stone at this point.
But this is not enough. What about ToP Vegeta? In the Tournament of Power, Goku doesn't get stronger, if anything he's as strong as his Future Trunks arc counterpart or a bit weaker:
SsjB Goku (at max power) was able to blitz Initial Merged Zamasu AND pierce through him with a Kamehameha (The Kamehameha is part of his Power, not any higher. It wasn't said to be a Super Kamehameha at all):
You might say that Zamasu got caught of guard but that's wrong since he's supposed to be far above Goku, to the point that he said that Goku doesn't seem to even move to him at all:
Meaning, Goku increased his power AND speed to even do that to Merged Zamasu. This would work fine if Zamasu gets stronger, which he does. Goku Black's power gets higher the more he fights and Zamasu is immortal which means any damage he takes is healed, and this is where the Zenkais come. He even says that his power will rise even more than it already is and is willing to see where will it reach him:
(The difference between Goku and Vegeta seems high, but that's actually fine and never contradicted, and Goku used his Kamehameha to output all his power rather than using it during combat, since Ki Blasts > Combat power, but it's still within Goku's power, as to consider it 100%, and not something far above Goku's power, even if it was something like, 2x Goku, since it would still support the main issue. Vegeta, on the other hand, hasn't shown anything like Goku did)
Whis says Vegeta just caught up to Goku's power yet he was training with just a regular SsjB and not MSsjB. Vegeta also admits he's equal to Goku in the Tournament of Power:
Since Vegeta manages to equal him, and the difference between Initial Merged Zamasu and SsjB Vegeta Chp. 22 is greater than the difference between Base and Ssj AND SsjG and SsjB, Base Saiyans would have long surpassed their previous SsjB counterparts. The chain upgrades to:
Hope you enjoyed the read and liked this analysis
Super Saiyan + Super Saiyan 2 Multipliers:
Super Saiyan Blue Multiplier Range:
I'll be proving here why the Ritual SsjG Multiplier is far above the stacked one. Now guys, read every single information without leaving ANYTHING out. Also, if you wish to quote me for something, please make sure you have read every single thing here. I want to know your opinions on this. So, enjoy
First of, we need to mention that the SsjG Ritual pushed Goku's power far higher than he could imagine, where even Goku said that there are many possibilities that are open for him right now that previously weren't possible or wasn't aware of it. This speaks enough to suggest that the multiplier of SsjG is indeed very great. It pushed him so high that his clash with Beerus shook the universe and was about to destroy the universe with unknown number of clashes. Ssj3 Goku has never been shown to accidentally do that using his power. However, Universe 6 arc implies that the Multiplier is not that high after the ritual. Toyotaro said that RoF Frieza is the strongest enemy Goku has fought, which would mean he's above any counterpart of Buuhan's who pretty much troubled Ssj Vegito, so at least we know that the multiplier is higher than 10x Ssj3 by far if we make the analysis ourselves.
Let's start slowly and prove it. SsjB Vegeta lost alot of stamina and couldn't maintain his power, ending up bullied by Hit:
Hit > SsjB Vegeta Post Stamina Loss (All of this chain is based on the Universe 6 Arc scaling of the Manga)
Yes, we know Goku fought Hit as a Super Saiyan by predicting what Hit will do, but he also manages to fight Hit in instances where he could dodge his attacks and block so many of them using brute force. Hit is more serious with Goku than SsjB Vegeta since he removed his hands from his pocket and started fighting seriously. They traded pure blows, yet weaker blows from Hit were shitting Vegeta:
In fact, there's absolutely no mention of Power. Hit is unable to blitz Goku with his pure speed, and nor is he able to hurt Goku by landing attacks at Goku, with Goku in turn blocking them. This would mean that Hit and Ssj Goku are relative to each other in terms of power but Hit takes the win because of his Time skip, while Goku's stamina would decrease. Vados doesn't say Goku is inferior to Hit, she says that the ONLY determining factor of the match is Stamina and which one will lose stamina first and not that one character is weaker than the other. In contrary to that, everytime someone superior comes to the like, it would be noted or implied. Old Kai even thought that the fight could go on forever if no one's stamina depleted first, yet if Hit was far above Goku, any attack which would've landed on Goku would have decimated him, yet non of that occurred:
Goku thought that things will be easy and that he'll succeed in beating Hit despite knowing that Hit's attacks where powerful enough to hurt depleted SsjB Vegeta. So Goku thought he'd win against Hit overall but he realized it's harder than he thought due to the stamina issue which would mean Ssj Goku in the Universe 6 arc is very relative to the Hit who bullied SsjB Vegeta who was suppressed, yet Goku fought that same Hit and a Hit who's even more serious against Goku than with Vegeta:
In fact, Beerus says that Ssj Goku > Hit, but it's because of Hit's time skip that Goku will lose more power. The Viz translation supports this very well, where Beerus says that Goku's power is far above Hit's, yet SsjB Vegeta's power is absolute garbage to Hit's and not just time skipping, he wasn't able to tank any of Hit's attacks yet Goku was able to survive them and move on while hit is being more serious with Goku than Vegeta:
Ssj Goku >= Hit > SsjB Vegeta Post Stamina Loss
What's amusing is that Whis says Vegeta hasn't exerted even one tenth of his SsjB Power, which would mean Vegeta used around one tenth of SsjB's power yet he was still inferior to Super Saiyan Goku:
You might start saying that Beerus said SsjG Goku > SsjB Vegeta and not Ssj, but that's utterly wrong. Beerus doesn't say anything about Ssj Goku not being above SsjB Vegeta, and Whis says that Hit's Timeskip works on only the people who are near Hit's power or below him. So you can be above Hit by a bit and it still would work. The only one who was stated to have surpassed Hit by then is Goku and not Vegeta, and a lowball would be SsjB Vegeta drained = Ssj Goku Max (I'll be using that lowball):
SsjG Goku > Ssj Goku >= SsjB Vegeta Post Stamina Loss >= Hit Suppressed
So 1/10th the amount of SsjB Vegeta is a bit weaker than Ssj Goku who's is supposedly equal to Vegeta as well. You might say that this is wrong because this is a small difference when it clearly is above the previous Super Saiyan forms. Wrong, because the SsjG form can be astronomically above the previous forms yet still hhave a low multiplier, since values in Dragon Ball don't scale linearly at all and therefore this could still make sense
Some people might say that the Tournament of Power implies SsjG Goku to be far above what I just said but this is already covered in the above part where even small differences in multipliers could mean astronomical increases. Terms such as "far stronger" or "way above him" and such are unquantifiable since you have no clue how much stronger when it comes to values, therefore such implications are unusable here at all since all they tell us is that they are more powerful than before, without quantifying an amount, and this doesn't contradict my post at all. At the very least my case is supported.
This post establishes the fact that Ritual SsjG Multiplier is higher than the Stacked SsjG Multiplier Goku uses U6 arc and further. Since SsjG Goku u6 arc > SsjG Goku BoG arc, it would mean that Base Goku is far stronger than regular Buu Saga Tiers as well if we follow this
First of, we need to mention that the SsjG Ritual pushed Goku's power far higher than he could imagine, where even Goku said that there are many possibilities that are open for him right now that previously weren't possible or wasn't aware of it. This speaks enough to suggest that the multiplier of SsjG is indeed very great. It pushed him so high that his clash with Beerus shook the universe and was about to destroy the universe with unknown number of clashes. Ssj3 Goku has never been shown to accidentally do that using his power. However, Universe 6 arc implies that the Multiplier is not that high after the ritual. Toyotaro said that RoF Frieza is the strongest enemy Goku has fought, which would mean he's above any counterpart of Buuhan's who pretty much troubled Ssj Vegito, so at least we know that the multiplier is higher than 10x Ssj3 by far if we make the analysis ourselves.
Let's start slowly and prove it. SsjB Vegeta lost alot of stamina and couldn't maintain his power, ending up bullied by Hit:
Hit > SsjB Vegeta Post Stamina Loss (All of this chain is based on the Universe 6 Arc scaling of the Manga)
Yes, we know Goku fought Hit as a Super Saiyan by predicting what Hit will do, but he also manages to fight Hit in instances where he could dodge his attacks and block so many of them using brute force. Hit is more serious with Goku than SsjB Vegeta since he removed his hands from his pocket and started fighting seriously. They traded pure blows, yet weaker blows from Hit were shitting Vegeta:
In fact, there's absolutely no mention of Power. Hit is unable to blitz Goku with his pure speed, and nor is he able to hurt Goku by landing attacks at Goku, with Goku in turn blocking them. This would mean that Hit and Ssj Goku are relative to each other in terms of power but Hit takes the win because of his Time skip, while Goku's stamina would decrease. Vados doesn't say Goku is inferior to Hit, she says that the ONLY determining factor of the match is Stamina and which one will lose stamina first and not that one character is weaker than the other. In contrary to that, everytime someone superior comes to the like, it would be noted or implied. Old Kai even thought that the fight could go on forever if no one's stamina depleted first, yet if Hit was far above Goku, any attack which would've landed on Goku would have decimated him, yet non of that occurred:
Goku thought that things will be easy and that he'll succeed in beating Hit despite knowing that Hit's attacks where powerful enough to hurt depleted SsjB Vegeta. So Goku thought he'd win against Hit overall but he realized it's harder than he thought due to the stamina issue which would mean Ssj Goku in the Universe 6 arc is very relative to the Hit who bullied SsjB Vegeta who was suppressed, yet Goku fought that same Hit and a Hit who's even more serious against Goku than with Vegeta:
In fact, Beerus says that Ssj Goku > Hit, but it's because of Hit's time skip that Goku will lose more power. The Viz translation supports this very well, where Beerus says that Goku's power is far above Hit's, yet SsjB Vegeta's power is absolute garbage to Hit's and not just time skipping, he wasn't able to tank any of Hit's attacks yet Goku was able to survive them and move on while hit is being more serious with Goku than Vegeta:
Ssj Goku >= Hit > SsjB Vegeta Post Stamina Loss
What's amusing is that Whis says Vegeta hasn't exerted even one tenth of his SsjB Power, which would mean Vegeta used around one tenth of SsjB's power yet he was still inferior to Super Saiyan Goku:
You might start saying that Beerus said SsjG Goku > SsjB Vegeta and not Ssj, but that's utterly wrong. Beerus doesn't say anything about Ssj Goku not being above SsjB Vegeta, and Whis says that Hit's Timeskip works on only the people who are near Hit's power or below him. So you can be above Hit by a bit and it still would work. The only one who was stated to have surpassed Hit by then is Goku and not Vegeta, and a lowball would be SsjB Vegeta drained = Ssj Goku Max (I'll be using that lowball):
SsjG Goku > Ssj Goku >= SsjB Vegeta Post Stamina Loss >= Hit Suppressed
So 1/10th the amount of SsjB Vegeta is a bit weaker than Ssj Goku who's is supposedly equal to Vegeta as well. You might say that this is wrong because this is a small difference when it clearly is above the previous Super Saiyan forms. Wrong, because the SsjG form can be astronomically above the previous forms yet still hhave a low multiplier, since values in Dragon Ball don't scale linearly at all and therefore this could still make sense
Some people might say that the Tournament of Power implies SsjG Goku to be far above what I just said but this is already covered in the above part where even small differences in multipliers could mean astronomical increases. Terms such as "far stronger" or "way above him" and such are unquantifiable since you have no clue how much stronger when it comes to values, therefore such implications are unusable here at all since all they tell us is that they are more powerful than before, without quantifying an amount, and this doesn't contradict my post at all. At the very least my case is supported.
This post establishes the fact that Ritual SsjG Multiplier is higher than the Stacked SsjG Multiplier Goku uses U6 arc and further. Since SsjG Goku u6 arc > SsjG Goku BoG arc, it would mean that Base Goku is far stronger than regular Buu Saga Tiers as well if we follow this
Ssj Goku Black after getting Zenkai started beating up Vegeta's SsjB. At first Ssj2 Vegeta and Ssj Goku Black were completely even and no difference in their power was even shown, and if anything Vegeta had the upper hand as he was laughing all the time while Goku Black was struggling:
SsjB Vegeta Ch.19 > Ssj2 Vegeta Chp.19 > Ssj Goku Black Chp.19
As soon as Goku Black gets a Zenkai, his power increases to the point that in just Ssj, he can fight evenly while holding a slight advantage against SsjB Vegeta:
Ssj Goku Black (Post Zenkai) > SsjB Vegeta Ch.19 > Ssj2 Vegeta Chp.19 > Ssj Goku Black Chp.19
Vegeta enters the ROSAT and trains hard enough that his regular SsjG form beats SsjR Goku Black which is his SsjB form. Your reasoning about Vegeta going SsjG is honestly laughable, mind you. He didn't utilize the SsjB power, he decided to use a weaker form because it wastes less stamina, as opposed to what happened in the universe 6 arc, but only momentarily uses its power.
As a SsjG, he's capable of dodging multiple attacks from Goku Black, but he switches to Blue to fight Goku Black. His SsjB Form became powerful enough to easily Shitstomp Goku Black. Trunks states that he's fodder to Goku Black and refers to Base Black because he said he didn't go Super Saiyan for a long time, and we already see base black dominating Trunks's Full Power.
SsjB Vegeta Chp.22 > SsjR Goku Black (Post Zenkai) > Ssj Vegeta Chp.22 > Ssj Goku Black (Post Zenkai) > SsjB Vegeta Chp.19/20 > Base Vegeta Chp.22 > SsjG Vegeta Chp.19/20 Ssj2 Vegeta Chp.19/20 > Ssj Goku Black Chp.19
Since SsjB Vegeta Chp. 22 > SsjR Goku Black and both forms are equal in general, then Ssj Vegeta Chp. 22 > Ssj Goku Black > SsjB Vegeta Chp. 19
So at this point, Ssj Vegeta has surpassed his earlier SsjB form. Base Vegeta Chp.22 > SsjG Vegeta Chp. 19 is uncertain because the difference between SsjG and SsjB is lower than the difference between Base form and Ssj, therefore it's left unquantifiable, but Ssj Vegeta Chp. 22 > SsjB Vegeta Chp. 19 is set in stone at this point.
But this is not enough. What about ToP Vegeta? In the Tournament of Power, Goku doesn't get stronger, if anything he's as strong as his Future Trunks arc counterpart or a bit weaker:
SsjB Goku (at max power) was able to blitz Initial Merged Zamasu AND pierce through him with a Kamehameha (The Kamehameha is part of his Power, not any higher. It wasn't said to be a Super Kamehameha at all):
You might say that Zamasu got caught of guard but that's wrong since he's supposed to be far above Goku, to the point that he said that Goku doesn't seem to even move to him at all:
Meaning, Goku increased his power AND speed to even do that to Merged Zamasu. This would work fine if Zamasu gets stronger, which he does. Goku Black's power gets higher the more he fights and Zamasu is immortal which means any damage he takes is healed, and this is where the Zenkais come. He even says that his power will rise even more than it already is and is willing to see where will it reach him:
SsjB Goku ToP >=< SsjB Goku Future Trunks Arc > Initial Merged Zamasu > several hundreds of times SsjB Vegeta Chp. 22 > SsjB Vegeta Chp.22 > SsjR Goku Black (Post Zenkai) > Ssj Vegeta Chp.22 > Ssj Goku Black (Post Zenkai) > SsjB Vegeta Chp.19/20 > Base Vegeta Chp.22 > SsjG Vegeta Chp.19/20 Ssj2 Vegeta Chp.19/20 > Ssj Goku Black Chp.19
(The difference between Goku and Vegeta seems high, but that's actually fine and never contradicted, and Goku used his Kamehameha to output all his power rather than using it during combat, since Ki Blasts > Combat power, but it's still within Goku's power, as to consider it 100%, and not something far above Goku's power, even if it was something like, 2x Goku, since it would still support the main issue. Vegeta, on the other hand, hasn't shown anything like Goku did)
Whis says Vegeta just caught up to Goku's power yet he was training with just a regular SsjB and not MSsjB. Vegeta also admits he's equal to Goku in the Tournament of Power:
Since Vegeta manages to equal him, and the difference between Initial Merged Zamasu and SsjB Vegeta Chp. 22 is greater than the difference between Base and Ssj AND SsjG and SsjB, Base Saiyans would have long surpassed their previous SsjB counterparts. The chain upgrades to:
SsjB Goku ToP >=< SsjB Goku Future Trunks Arc (100%) = SsjB Vegeta ToP (100%)> Initial Merged Zamasu > several hundreds of times SsjB Vegeta Chp. 22 > SsjB Vegeta Chp.22 > Base Goku ToP = Base Vegeta ToP > SsjR Goku Black (Post Zenkai) > Ssj Vegeta Chp.22 > Ssj Goku Black (Post Zenkai) > SsjB Vegeta Chp.19/20 > Base Vegeta Chp.22 > SsjG Vegeta Chp.19/20 Ssj2 Vegeta Chp.19/20 > Ssj Goku Black Chp.19
Hope you enjoyed the read and liked this analysis
