Battle Powers List (Z)

[ahill1]

Do you believe in gaps? That is, do you still work out your list calculating percentage gaps, or you think they are merely a plot device? Because if so, I won't bring up percentage gaps when offering you a feedback here.

 

[SSJ2]

You have Namek Krillin > pre Nail Piccolo?

 

[Six Trails]

Do you believe in gaps? That is, do you still work out your list calculating percentage gaps, or you think they are merely a plot device? Because if so, I won't bring up percentage gaps when offering you a feedback here.

Well I'd imagine the whole basis of making a BP list is based off percentages gaps, so yes.

You have Namek Krillin > pre Nail Piccolo?

Yes. I try to put him and Gohan as high as reasonably possible so they can be considered relevant against Freeza.

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

I don't think they need to be that high, Mikey. Vegeta said their powers were increasing, so unless you think Vegeta expected Kuririn and Gohan to surpass him i think it's better to have them at the 200k rage. Kuririn and Gohan shat themselves at Freeza and Vegeta even before the laters powered up.

 

[ahill1]

Do you believe in gaps? That is, do you still work out your list calculating percentage gaps, or you think they are merely a plot device? Because if so, I won't bring up percentage gaps when offering you a feedback here.

Well I'd imagine the whole basis of making a BP list is based off percentages gaps, so yes.

You have Namek Krillin > pre Nail Piccolo?

Yes. I try to put him and Gohan as high as reasonably possible so they can be considered relevant against Freeza.

Well, some people who really enjoy doing battle power lists pay no attention to gaps (e.g Kaboom), and I even used them as a plot device in my last list, hence my question.

But okay, later on I'll try to offer some feedback.

 

[Fantastische Hure]

Did you let Gohan only power-down so little in the 7 year gap because you wanted to keep it minimalistic?

Don't you think Gohan post sword training could be a bit higher? They sensed Goku's power into the realm and Gohan seemed to have gotten quite the power-up.

 

[Animelover5487]

One armed Future Gohan should be rivaling 17 year old Future Trunks. Bulma acted like there was hardly a difference between him and Gohan's power.

Yardrat Goku should be much stronger than Trunks. Trunks said Goku was better than the rumors and Trunks was already expecting Goku to be stronger than him.

If Kibito was that high then why didn't Shin include him when he was talking about how all the Kaioshins could one shot Freeza. I would think adding something like "even Kibito here would make short work of Freeza" would strengthen the statement.

 

[Six Trails]

I don't think they need to be that high, Mikey. Vegeta said their powers were increasing, so unless you think Vegeta expected Kuririn and Gohan to surpass him i think it's better to have them at the 200k rage. Kuririn and Gohan shat themselves at Freeza and Vegeta even before the laters powered up.

That's what I think their powers were at their complete max. So their powers could've been slightly lower than that at the very beginning of that fight, if that makes sense.

Did you let Gohan only power-down so little in the 7 year gap because you wanted to keep it minimalistic?

Don't you think Gohan post sword training could be a bit higher? They sensed Goku's power into the realm and Gohan seemed to have gotten quite the power-up.

Yes, but I also don't think the decrease needs to be that huge, either. Why should it need to be bigger than 1.25x?

I only think Gohan ended up marginally stronger than Goku because of his ability to wield the sword better than Goku. How would you quantify Gohan's power being sensible from Enma's realm? I also think Gohan's post-Sword power was overhyped out of desperation. Goku seemed skeptical and Old Kaioshin completely dismissed him. There's also really no reason for Gohan to get so strong. The whole point was for all of his power to be released from Old Kaioshin himself.

One armed Future Gohan should be rivaling 17 year old Future Trunks. Bulma acted like there was hardly a difference between him and Gohan's power.

Yardrat Goku should be much stronger than Trunks. Trunks said Goku was better than the rumors and Trunks was already expecting Goku to be stronger than him.

If Kibito was that high then why didn't Shin include him when he was talking about how all the Kaioshins could one shot Freeza. I would think adding something like "even Kibito here would make short work of Freeza" would strengthen the statement.

I slightly lowered Trunks to make him closer to Gohan and further from Goku. You have fair points there.

As for Kibito, it's just hard for me to believe that a bodyguard for a Kaioshin could be so weak.

 

[Six Trails]

You have Namek Krillin > pre Nail Piccolo?

Read my answer above. Hypothetically, though, does anything necessarily contradict that?

 

[ahill1]

Well, some people bring in Piccolo's confidence in aiding Gohan and Kuririn as a reason for him being at least above them individually. I myself never found that a strong reason, as not too long after Nail pointed out that if Piccolo wished he could go off face Freeza and bekilled by the tyrant's hands, and Piccolo's face when staring at Freeza's direction and quickly choosing to give the Namekian merge a try imply he was indeed no match for 1st form Freeza. Not to mention that Nail merely stated that a fusion between Piccolo and Kami, whose boost was implied to be 2x, just might be able to defeta Freeza, implying weighted Piccolo at least isn't leaps and bounds ahead 50% 1st form Freeza.

 

[Fantastische Hure]

Gohan could be sensed from Enma-Daio's realm? :cabba :cabba :cabba

 

[Six Trails]

Well, yes... That's how Goku finds him, no?

 

[Fantastische Hure]

Well, yes... That's how Goku finds him, no?

I forgot. Haven't seen anything in a long time, so that means Gohan is quite high, right?!

 

[Six Trails]

Well, again, I don't see how you could quantify that. If you were to try to argue that the Super Saiyan 2s couldn't be sensed from the Kaioshin realm to Earth but Base Gohan could be sensed from Enma's realm to the Kaioshin realm, then you'd be insinuating that Base Gohan > SS2 Goku and Vegeta and probably close in power to SS3 Goku. But maybe it's just easier to sense power from Enma's realm to the Kaioshin realm than it is from Earth. I don't think much thought was really put into it from Toriyama's end.

 

[Fantastische Hure]

Well, again, I don't see how you could quantify that. If you were to try to argue that the Super Saiyan 2s couldn't be sensed from the Kaioshin realm to Earth but Base Gohan could be sensed from Enma's realm to the Kaioshin realm, then you'd be insinuating that Base Gohan > SS2 Goku and Vegeta and probably close in power to SS3 Goku. But maybe it's just easier to sense power from Enma's realm to the Kaioshin realm than it is from Earth. I don't think much thought was really put into it from Toriyama's end.

Oh I see what you mean now. Well Goku might just be a better Ki-Senser. Or maybe Kaio-Shin felt Goku's Ki in the Kaio-Shin realm as if he was standing right in-front of him, even-though he was far, far away and he just happened to sense it because it was so huge he couldn't not sense it where-as Goku had to seek Gohan's power out consciously.

 

[SSJ2]

Well, some people bring in Piccolo's confidence in aiding Gohan and Kuririn as a reason for him being at least above them individually. I myself never found that a strong reason, as not too long after Nail pointed out that if Piccolo wished he could go off face Freeza and bekilled by the tyrant's hands, and Piccolo's face when staring at Freeza's direction and quickly choosing to give the Namekian merge a try imply he was indeed no match for 1st form Freeza. Not to mention that Nail merely stated that a fusion between Piccolo and Kami, whose boost was implied to be 2x, just might be able to defeta Freeza, implying weighted Piccolo at least isn't leaps and bounds ahead 50% 1st form Freeza.

Why 50% 1st Form Freeza?

 

[ahill1]

Well, some people bring in Piccolo's confidence in aiding Gohan and Kuririn as a reason for him being at least above them individually. I myself never found that a strong reason, as not too long after Nail pointed out that if Piccolo wished he could go off face Freeza and bekilled by the tyrant's hands, and Piccolo's face when staring at Freeza's direction and quickly choosing to give the Namekian merge a try imply he was indeed no match for 1st form Freeza. Not to mention that Nail merely stated that a fusion between Piccolo and Kami, whose boost was implied to be 2x, just might be able to defeta Freeza, implying weighted Piccolo at least isn't leaps and bounds ahead 50% 1st form Freeza.

Why 50% 1st Form Freeza?

Because fusing with Kami apparently gives Piccolo a 2x boost. So, if Nail stated that a hypothetical Freeza saga Kamiccolo 'might' be able to defeat 1st form Freeza, then weighted Piccolo shouldn't be leaps and bounds above 1/2 of 1st form Freeza.

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

Well, some people bring in Piccolo's confidence in aiding Gohan and Kuririn as a reason for him being at least above them individually. I myself never found that a strong reason, as not too long after Nail pointed out that if Piccolo wished he could go off face Freeza and bekilled by the tyrant's hands, and Piccolo's face when staring at Freeza's direction and quickly choosing to give the Namekian merge a try imply he was indeed no match for 1st form Freeza. Not to mention that Nail merely stated that a fusion between Piccolo and Kami, whose boost was implied to be 2x, just might be able to defeta Freeza, implying weighted Piccolo at least isn't leaps and bounds ahead 50% 1st form Freeza.

Quite doubtful. After Nail says this, Piccolo asks "Would my power really be higher than Freeza's?" to which Nail replies "Yes..." With no doubts like before.

 

[ahill1]

I think this just shows that a hypothetical Kamiccolo would be indeed above Freeza, but not by leaps and bounds. Similarly, we have Vegeta stating that Goku is indeed more powerful than his son was back then, yet Piccolo makes use of a 'perhaps' to express Majin Vegeta's superiority over Kid Gohan. Considering most people take that as Akira Toriyama showing us that the gap isn't too big, I don't see why I wouldn't look at this situation as the same, even moreso when in this situation we have the same character making both power statements, to which the "those statements are structured a bit differently since they aren't coming from the same character", which is a common counter to the Goku/Majin Vegeta vs kid Gohan situation, wouldn't even apply here.

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

The Piccolo situation actually is quite different. Both Vegeta and Piccolo are talking about power, but Nail first is talking about beating Freeza (Where he is uncertain), and the other is about being stronger (Where he is sure). It could be a bit sizeable, but enough for Freeza to put up a fight and might be able to turn tables.