Best battle powers ever

[Power Level Guy]

Right, saying you saw my son, when there's no evidence Vegeta knows 17 was seeing through Cell...

The evidence is in the quote. Vegeta implies that he knows 17 can see through Cell. So therefore he must have been informed on the matter.

How do you expect Vegeta to know this if he wasn’t told this. Vegeta cannot read minds.

 

[ahill1]

Know what? You're assuming he was told this. The quote isn't evidence as we don't know which Trunks he was comparing.

 

[Power Level Guy]

Know what? You're assuming he was told this.

Indeed. In the logical world we are forced to make common sense assumptions everyday. All the time. You cannot properly comprehend a story without making assumptions. Any reasonable person understands this.

The quote isn't evidence as we don't know which Trunks he was comparing.

Well for one, it’s a version of Trunks that Vegeta knows 17 saw and one that seems to be able to hold up quite well against the Cell Jrs. There’s only one version that comes to mind to adequately address both of those points.

 

[ahill1]

An assumption that has no backing, specially since you said the Cell Juniors were holding back.

 

[Power Level Guy]

An assumption that has no backing, specially since you said the Cell Juniors were holding back.

There are levels to holding back. I’m not saying they are holding back as much as they were against someone like Piccolo. They are holding back as in they aren’t taking out the kids with their numbers but still using FP.

 

[ahill1]

Well, how can you gauge how much they're holding back? If yiu have opened the precedent for them to be holding their power, then it can be easily argued to be a lot too

 

[Power Level Guy]

Well, how can you gauge how much they're holding back?

Based on the data we have. We have Vegeta's suggested power statement for Kid Trunks.

 

[Power Level Guy]

Have you figured out Light Grenade yet?

 

[ahill1]

Based on the data we have. We have Vegeta's suggested power statement for Kid Trunks.

Here you go in circles again...

 

[ahill1]

Have you figured out Light Grenade yet?

Nah. I just used the standard 2x gap for that one. One thing it's interesting is that Cell says if he absorbs Kamiccolo, his initial stage evolution will be always complete, possibly referencing his imperfect form strength needed to absorb the androids. When he was finished absorbing the humans, he said he "overdid it a little" and got carried away iirc. This may imply he absorbed more than needed for the first stage.

If we assume absorbing Kamiccolo would be an addition like thing, then it could be that Cell (post humans absorptions) > Cell (1st stage complete) >= Cell (post weighted Kamiccolo)

I've it as

Cell 530,000,000
Kamiccolo (weighted) 667,000,000

Adding them up, it'd be 1,200,000,000 pretty much. Let's say his 1st stage completion he envisioned was 1,300,000,000... And the part he got carried away and overdit it, 1,500,000,000... Where I've him, 2x unweighted Kamiccolo and 17.

You see the light grenade as what, a 3.5x multiplier?

Edit: the first stage likely meaning the power he lost when he regressed to an egg and waited for 4 years to hatch.

 

[Power Level Guy]

his initial stage evolution will be always complete, possibly referencing his imperfect form strength needed to absorb the androids.

Viz-ism

 

[ahill1]

What's the actual quote again

 

[Power Level Guy]

You see the light grenade as what, a 3.5x multiplier?

No, I use a 1.5x amp, an improvement from the Freeza Saga, but nothing too crazy. Me and GSM have come to agree that Vegeta's BBA couldn't kill Android 18 and therefore if Vegeta's amp is 1.5x, Piccolo's can't be higher and so on.

It isn't until Final Flash when the amps get really ridiculous.

What's the actual quote again

Nothing as concrete as the Viz line. It just says he will get stronger essentially.

 

[ahill1]

Ok, so 2x works. It's kinda whatever

 

[Power Level Guy]

Ok, so 2x works. It's kinda whatever

So long as you can explain what Piccolo meant when speaking about Cell’s Kamehameha. Goku’s attack was weak back then, why?

I go with it being taken from the Kaioken Kamehameha which had no amp imo.

So show me.

Piccolo 100
~ Light Grenade 200

Imperfect Cell 300

???

 

[ahill1]

Didn't you say you had a 1.5x amp?

 

[Power Level Guy]

Didn't you say you had a 1.5x amp?

I go by a 1.5x amp for Kamehameha in the Saiyan Saga. Do you go by that too or do you use the 2.22x amp for Kamehameha?

 

[Dagon]

Vegeta seems to be implying the Future Trunks 17 saw while within Cell. Since both 17 and 18 can see everything that was going on when inside of Cell.

But does Vegeta know that 17 and 18 were aware of Cell's actions while absorbed? I think 17 revealed that when Vegeta wasn't present. If Vegeta is not aware of that then it could be read as what Vegeta thinks 17 is aware of for future Trunks' power, which would be Androids saga Trunks since he would have reason to think 17 was aware of everything while absorbed.

On the other hand Vegeta might simply know for plot contrivance. I think DB does this sometimes when characters appear to know things that they weren't present for just to move the plot along.

 

[Power Level Guy]

But does Vegeta know that 17 and 18 were aware of Cell's actions while absorbed?

He implies he does.

I think 17 revealed that when Vegeta wasn't present.

It's been well over 10 years since the events occurred. Android 18 has the same knowledge as Android 17 does and could have shared it within that 10+ years.

We regularly accept this level of evidence all the time. It should be no different here.

If Vegeta is not aware of that then it could be read as what Vegeta thinks 17 is aware of for future Trunks' power, which would be Androids saga Trunks since he would have reason to think 17 was aware of everything while absorbed.

Ok, then are you willing to accept that? Kid Trunks = Android Saga Ssjs. That is what that would mean.

On the other hand Vegeta might simply know for plot contrivance. I think DB does this sometimes when characters appear to know things that they weren't present for just to move the plot along.

The events of the universe occur when we are not watching. Many things happen off screen. To think we need to witness every single for it to actually happen is too high of a bar for the need for evidence.

 

[Dagon]

He implies he does.

If your answer as to why is the statement itself then that's circular reasoning.