Best battle powers ever

[Power Level Guy]

I just made it fit.

You had to nerf a ton of stuff though.

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

It actually fits perfectly. 2x for the tanks and he made it.

I preferred the 10x list though. More aesthetically pleasing.

 

[ahill1]

What was needed? I think the only thing you could argue was nerfed is if you think 50% Goku >>>>> the Cell that kicked Vegeta's ass. Outside of it, I fail to see anything needed there. Actually, if I used a 50x multiplier, I'd need to bloat things from my PoV to have the base kids ~ 18. It may work, but then are you going to say Semi Cell Vs 16 should be 4x gap? Warm up Cell Vs Vegeta, 4x too? I'd actually not even like a 25x multiplier. It'd be 10x for me. 50x ok too, but then I'd need to have the base Saiyans way lower. I really don't know how you can have base Saiyans >>>>> Piccolo like you defend and use a 50x multiplier.

I'd like @Cell / @Vertical to pop up again and explain his views on SSJ as not a multiplier at all, more like a barrier and a certain power up. I understood some of his points, but he never released all the thought process he had regarding how he treats SSJ in his BP lists, which would be interesting to see.

 

[Power Level Guy]

I really don't know how you can have base Saiyans >>>>> Piccolo like you defend and use a 50x multiplier.

Because there literally is no room for a smaller multiplier. I need every bit of that 50x multiplier. It sure would be nice to have one of those fancy Grade 4 500x multiplier that all the kids on YouTube talk about but it's not even true.

Android 18 1
Base Kids 1
Piccolo 1.5
Base Goku CG 2.5
Ssj Kids 50
Cell Jrs ~ 50
Mssj Goku 75

I think I just provided you with a much better template right here.

 

[ahill1]

Well, it seems needed for you, I think my gaps there does justice to all that's needed.

 

[Power Level Guy]

Well, it seems needed for you, I think my gaps there does justice to all that's needed.

Show me this.

Android 18 1
Base Kids
Piccolo
Light Grenade
Imperfect Cell
Semi Perfect Cell
Super Vegeta
Perfect Cell
50% Goku


I'll be able to determine who you nerfed with these few characters. I promise you that you nerfed at least 3 or 4 characters here. Keep Android 18 as 1 and fill in the blanks please.

 

[ahill1]

18 1
Base Kids 1
Piccolo 1.1
-- weakened -- 0.8
Light Grenade 1.5
Imperfect Cell 2.2
Semi Perfect Cell 4.4
-- FP 5.5
Super Vegeta 8.2
Perfect Cell 16.4
50% Goku 20

SSJ CGs Vegeta/Trunks : 25
-- base : 1

 

[Power Level Guy]

18 1
Base Kids 1
Piccolo 1.1
-- weakened -- 0.8
Light Grenade 1.5
Imperfect Cell 2.2
Semi Perfect Cell 4.4
-- FP 5.5
Super Vegeta 8.2
Perfect Cell 16.4
50% Goku 20

SSJ CGs Vegeta/Trunks : 25
-- base : 1

This doesn't look bad.

Where do you have Buff Cell and Grade 3 Trunks at? Forgot to include them.

 

[ahill1]

Depends. I think it's possible to have the SSJG3 boost as a not outrageous thing. If you think Goku before getting any significant power up and yet surpassing Semi Cell in the RoSaT, then a 10x boost would be warranted... But it doesn't mesh well with buff Cell getting smashed by Gohan in one kick. So I think the best route is assuming some gains for SSJ Goku there.

18 - 1

SSJ Goku - 0.7

SSJ Goku (meditating on RoSaT) - 1.5
Grade 2 - 2.5
Grade 3 - 5

So a 3.33x off SSJ more or less, when I'd have SSJ2 as 3x I think.

Cell (real speed) - 55
-- FP - 88
SSJ Gohan - 51
SSJ2 Gohan - 156

Buff Cell - 110
Weakened Cell 66
"MSSJ-like" weakened Cell - 40
Buff Cell -- 120 (3x what his MSSJ would be, with its reduction in his full power proportional to the decrease his base level, MSSJ-like state, represented by real speed Cell, would get... To which his grade 3/buffed state multiplied off)...


That's the absolute best I can do of the situation. I got Goku a 3.33x there, but let's assume Cell got a 3x one due to his desperate state possibly influencing a little the effectiveness of the state.

 

[Power Level Guy]

Depends. I think it's possible to have the SSJG3 boost as a not outrageous thing.

You have Gohan and Goku surpassing Piccolo in such a short time?

 

[ahill1]

Yeah. We don't know how much time passed. Gohan had already improved significantly having already mastered the SSJ, he noticed Goku was meditating for days there, rather than the whole time, which implies he did things before it... And considering how big their overall gains were, I don't think that's much of a stretch. At least in the anime it was shown Goku training in the cold temperatures doing a KMHMH when Gohan woke up suddenly, which was before he achieved those forms, tho I may be wrong and it may be later too.

 

[Power Level Guy]

Yeah. We don't know how much time passed. Gohan had already improved significantly having already mastered the SSJ, he noticed Goku was meditating for days there, rather than the whole time, which implies he did things before it... And considering how big their overall gains were, I don't think that's much of a stretch. At least in the anime it was shown Goku training in the cold temperatures doing a KMHMH when Gohan woke up suddenly, which was before he achieved those forms, tho I may be wrong and it may be later too.

Yeah, I don't have too much of a problem with it honestly. I've been forced to bump them up to Piccolo levels myself. I just don't think they should be exceedingly beyond the Androids.

Put it this way, if all they needed to do was some Rosat training to beat the Androids, they would have. They need a whole new form to overcome them.

It's more than just training for a year, but a year's worth of training catching them up could make sense, but they need a whole new form to prepare for the battle at hand. They were aware of Cell and his desire to absorb the Androids although, so perhaps they are anticipating something beyond the Androids.

Do you take Gohan to be equals with Goku at this moment? I never rate Gohan here, but he "caught up" from my understanding. So perhaps they are equals?

I personally go with this set...

Super Saiyan 50x
Grade 2 100x
Super Saiyan 2 200x
Grade 3 300x

It seems to suit me perfectly.

You've cleaned up a ton of the issues I've brought up. Thank you recognizing the validity of my arguments and addressing them. It's starting to really shape up. Personal preference aside, I think you are in the plausibility range for my tastes. Good work.

I will add one thing though, I do believe 50% Goku > Buff Cell/Buff Trunks should be the standard. A 1.5x boost or so. Any way you could fit that in?

 

[ahill1]

Well, they saw surpassing SSJ as the way, but it seems training in the RoSaT was just that good. I mean, Vegeta with SSJ alone could kill all 3 androids with minimum effort... That implies the need to surpass the SSJ, for the focus such was given, wasn't treated so well in terms of power scaling considering how powerful even SSJ Vegeta had become already...

I have it as a 1.25x. Is there that much of a difference?

I could make it 1.5x easily tho, Buff Trunks could be a 20 and 50% would be 30. In that case though, CGs Vegeta and Trunks would be like 36 and thus the kids, 36 too. Only problem is that a 36x multiplier for SSJ isn't s pleasant number to look at lol. Well, having CGs Vegeta and Trunks as 40 though and thus the kids as 40 with a 40x SSJ multiplier would be better, with Vegeta and Trunks being 66% of CGs Goku. Fair.


18 - 1
Piccolo - 1.1
Cell/16 - 2.2
Initial Semi Cell - 4.4
--- FP - 5.5
Super Vegeta - 8
Cell (vs Vegeta) - 16
SSJg3 Trunks - 20
50% Goku - 30
100% Goku - 60

CGs Piccolo - 30
CGs Vegeta/Trunks/Cell Juniors - 40

Base kids - 1
- SSJ - 40

 

[ahill1]

the grade 3 multiplier bigger too, I overlooked that. It's 4x, not 3x considering SSJ Trunks as a 5 in the list above. So if let's say SSJ future Trunks (vs semi cell) is a 5 which is fair (between initial Semi Cell and FP semi Cell), the multiplier would be 4x for grade 3, which reduces how much Goku should have improved.

Goku SSJ - 0.7
Goku (post sometime in the RoSaT).- 1.3
--- SSJG3 - 5.2

5.2 vs initial Semi Cell's 4.4 loos spaced enough imo.

 

[Power Level Guy]

Well, they saw surpassing SSJ as the way, but it seems training in the RoSaT was just that good. I mean, Vegeta with SSJ alone could kill all 3 androids with minimum effort... That implies the need to surpass the SSJ, for the focus such was given, wasn't treated so well in terms of power scaling considering how powerful even SSJ Vegeta had become already...

Well, I'd say the Grade forms is what allowed for such growth. I don't think non-Grade form Vegeta is anywhere near that strong.

I could make it 1.5x easily tho, Buff Trunks could be a 20 and 50% would be 30. In that case though, CGs Vegeta and Trunks would be like 36 and thus the kids, 36 too. Only problem is that a 36x multiplier for SSJ isn't s pleasant number to look at lol. Well, having CGs Vegeta and Trunks as 40 though and thus the kids as 40 with a 40x SSJ multiplier would be better, with Vegeta and Trunks being 66% of CGs Goku. Fair.

How do you deny the promotional material for BoG that outright states Super Saiyan is 50x?

 

[ahill1]

Fuck super lulz

 

[Power Level Guy]

Fuck super lulz

Dude, this isn't a real argument. That promotional material ends all of the nonsense with the Grade 4 = 500x but it also ends the nonsense that Super Saiyan is 10x either. Our best bet is to keep Base Gotenks power implications as hype/gag as intended and apply the 50x Super Saiyan boost all the time.

You've already gone up to 35x boost now, there's no point not taking it further. It's literally officially all over the place and the evidence is not good enough to deny.

I'm the last person who says use the guides, but if the guides aren't contradicted at all, then we don't really have a choice.

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

Fuck super lulz

BoG movie =/= Super

 

[ahill1]

Dude, this isn't a real argument. That promotional material ends all of the nonsense with the Grade 4 = 500x but it also ends the nonsense that Super Saiyan is 10x either. Our best bet is to keep Base Gotenks power implications as hype/gag as intended and apply the 50x Super Saiyan boost all the time.

You've already gone up to 35x boost now, there's no point not taking it further. It's literally officially all over the place and the evidence is not good enough to deny.

I'm the last person who says use the guides, but if the guides aren't contradicted at all, then we don't really have a choice.

Was it written by Toriyama? Do you have SSJ2 as 2x? I mean, I had SSJ as 40x already, what big difference does it make?

Heck, a 40x multiplier would make sense in the Freeza saga with Freeza at 120,000,000 lulz

Freeza 120,000,000

Goku 3,000,000
--- SSJ 120,000,000

Except it'd need to be slightly bigger, like 43x

Which was later rounded to 40x


Still though, besides all that, I've a bias with 10x too lol. Toriyama thought and wrote the story thinking of a boost like that. Someone can argue it can represent accurate the intended power scaling

 

[Power Level Guy]

They specifically left out naming the boost size for Ssj2 and Ssj3, I’d say that’s a hallmark of a good guide.