Black, ToP and Moro arcs power levels

[SIAD]

Remember to increase Moro's power, so that you have Moro (OG73I)> Broly LSSJ.

Also Beerus> = Quitela.

I'm thinking that Champa and Beerus (Past) should be very minimally inferior to Vegetto SSJB (Arc Zamasu) and Broly LSSJ (Surely Shin and Goku made comparisons with that version of Beerus).

I think Sidra is the least powerful Hakaishin. Maybe Liquir = Iwan = Geen = Arak ~ Helles if we are based on the Anime for the case of the first 4. In the Manga, Liquir seems to be on a level with Helles.

A Mosco that took a hit from Quitela, Rumoosh and Champa (Suppressed), seemed to dominate Liquir and Helles together without any problem.

The idea of Super Saiyan 2 is interesting when thinking that Quitela and Beerus received many attacks at the time when he was paralyzed by Rumoosh. In addition Beerus faced Rumoosh, the third most powerful Hakaishin.

Everything seems to indicate that Beerus is >>> Mega UI Vegeta = Granolah (Power Up) >>> Granolah> UI Goku (Current).

Don't be afraid to lower the power of some Hakaishins a bit and increase the levels of Beerus, Quitela, Rumoosh, and Mosco.

Only if you gave me permission to use your numbers, I would increase very minimally to Ultimate Gohan and Kefla SSJ.

Perhaps Moro (OG73I) is stronger than the sum of Moro (FP) + OG73I. Whereas Moro by absorbing energies from Namekians, increased his power tremendously. All in all, Moro (OG73I) ~ 601,000.

Also edit:

Goku UI = 937,500
Moor UI = 937,500
Merus (Disappearing) = 937,500
Merus (FP) = 1,000,000

Beerus = 1,600,000
(In the Past) = 588,000
Quitela = 1,536,000
Rumoosh = 1,440,000
Mosco = 1,200,000
Champa = 575,000
Liquir = 480,000
Iwan = 480,000
Geen = 480,000
Arak = 480,000
Helles = 480,000
Belmond = 399,000
Sidra = 312,500.

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

Take 2, now including BoGs and FnF.

Battle of Gods

Goku: 500
~ SSJ: 1,250
~ SSJ2: 1,562.5
~ SSJ3: 3,125
~ SSJG: 500,000

Vegeta: 480
~ SSJ: 1,200
~ SSJ2: 1,500
~ SSJ2 (Enraged): 75,000

Gohan: 15,000
SSJ3 Gotenks: 12,500

Beerus: 100,000
~ Powered up vs Goku: 550,000

Revival of F

Goku: 24,000
~ SSJB: 1,500,000

Vegeta: 25,000
~ SSJB: 1,562,500

Freeza: 3,600
~ True form: 24,000
~ Golden form: 1,800,000

Tournament of Destroyers

Goku: 40,000
~ SSJ: 100,000
~ SSJG: 1,000,000
~ SSJB: 2,500,000

Vegeta: 40,000
~ SSJ: 100,000
~ SSJB: 2,500,000
~ SSJB (Power loss): 125,000

Piccolo: 60,000

Botamo: 10,000

Frost: 25,000
~ Assault form: 37,500
~ True form: 75,000

Magetta: 150,000

Cabba: 36,000
~ SSJ: 90,000

Hit: 100,000
~ Full power: 1,000,000

Goku Black I

Goku: 50,000
~ SSJ: 125,000
~ SSJ2: 156,250
~ SSJ3: 312,500
~ SSJG: 1,250,000
~ SSJB: 3,125,000

Trunks: 50,000
~ SSJ2: 156,250
~ FPSSJ2: 300,000

Vegeta: 50,000
~ FPSSJ2: 500,000
~ SSJB: 3,125,000

Goku Black: 360,000
~ Adapted: 400,000
~ SSJ: 450,000
~ SSJ (Zenkai): 3,125,000
~ SSJR: 5,000,000

Zamasu: 240,000

Goku Black II

Goku: 50,000
~ SSJG: 1,250,000
~ SSJB: 3,125,000
~ SSJB (Vs Zamasu): 6,250,000
~ PSSJB: 12,500,000

Vegeta (Post Rosat): 100,000
~ SSJG: 2,500,000
~ SSJB: 6,250,000

Trunks: 50,000
~ FPSSJ2: 300,000

SSJR Goku Black: 5,000,000
Zamasu: 240,000

Merged Zamasu: 10,000,000
~ Full power: 12,000,000

Tournament of Power

Goku: 100,000
~ SSJ: 250,000
~ SSJ2: 312,500
~ SSJ3: 312,500
~ SSJG: 2,500,000
~ PSSJB: 12,500,000
~ PSSJB (Adapted): 37,500,000
~ Pseudo Kaio-Ken: 75,000,000
~ UI (Sign): 300,000,000
~ UI: 750,000,000

Vegeta: 100,000
~ SSJ: 250,000
~ PSSJB: 12,500,000
~ PSSJB (Adapted): 37,500,000
~ SSJBE: 150,000,000

Freeza: 100,000
~ True golden form: 12,500,000

#17: 12,500,000

Piccolo: 62,500

Gohan: 75,000
~ Vs Kefla: 37,500,000

Trio De Danger: 45,000 - 50,000

Frost: 75,000

Hit: 12,500,000
~ Time Cage: 25,000,000

Cabba: 40,000
~ SSJ: 100,000

Caulifla: 50,000
~ SSJ: 125,000

Kale: 200,000
~ LSSJ (Initial): 10,000,000+
~ LSSJ (Peak): 15,000,000

Kefla: 15,000,000
~ SSJ: 37,500,000

Pride Troopers: <100,000

Dyspo: 500,000

Toppo: 12,500,000

Jiren: 24,000,000
~ Powered up vs Hit: 36,000,000
~ Powered up vs Goku and Vegeta: 180,000,000
~ Powered up vs UIS Goku: 300,000,000
~ Full power: 600,000,000
~ Beyond limits: 720,000,000

Belmond: 500,000,000

Broly

Goku/Vegeta: 360,000
~ SSJ: 900,000
~ SSJG: 9,000,000
~ PSSJB: 45,000,000

Broly: 360,000
~ Full power: 3,600,000
~ Ikari: 36,000,000
~ LSSJ (Initial): 180,000,000
~ LSSJ (Peak): 1,800,000,000

Gogeta: 72,000,000
~ SSJ: 180,000,000
~ PSSJB: 9,000,000,000

Moro I

Goku: 400,000
~ SSJ: 1,000,000
~ SSJ2: 1,250,000
~ SSJ3: 2,500,000
~ SSJG: 10,000,000
~ PSSJB: 50,000,000

Vegeta: 400,000
~ SSJ: 1,000,000
~ SSJ2: 1,250,000
~ FPSSJ2: 4,000,000
~ SSJG: 10,000,000
~ PSSJB: 50,000,000
~ SSJBE: 200,000,000

Moro: 4,000,000
~ Young: 10,000,000
~ Post wish: 20,000,000
~ Namek absorbed: 40,000,000

Dai Kaioshin Boo: 30,000,000

Saganbo: 2,500,000

Gohan: 37,500,000
Piccolo: 75,000

Moro II

#18: 35,000,000
#17: 40,000,000
Piccolo: 45,000,000
Gohan: 50,000,000

Super Saganbo: 100,000,000

Goku: 1,200,000
~ PSSJB: 150,000,000
~ UI Sign (Suppressed): 1,000,000,000
~ UI Sign (Full power): 1,200,000,000
~ UI Sign (Beyond limits): 1,500,000,000

Vegeta: 1,800,000
~ PSSJB: 225,000,000
~ SSJBE: 900,000,000

Moro: 1,000,000,000
~ Full power: 1,500,000,000
~ 7-3 eaten: 1,505,000,000

Merus: 3,750,000,000
UI Goku: 3,750,000,000
Angel Moro: 3,750,000,000
~ Merged with Earth: 3,750,000,000+

Oob: ???

Granolah

Goku: 2,400,000
~ SSJ: 6,000,000
~ SSJG: 60,000,000
~ PSSJB: 300,000,000
~ UI: 7,500,000,000

Vegeta: 2,400,000
~ PSSJB: 300,000,000
~ SSJBE: 1,200,000,000
~ Ultra Ego: 12,000,000,000+

Granolah: 15,000,000,000
~ Split vs Goku: 7,500,000,000

Beerus: Over 15,000,000,000

Beerus is over 30x stronger than Belmond

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

@SIAD @SuperSaiyan2 @Pyro thoughts?

 

[SSJ2]

Beerus: 100,000
~ Powered up vs Goku: 500,000

Beerus > SSJG Goku

 

[Pyro]

Frost: 25,000
~ Assault form: 37,500
~ True form: 75,000

Magetta: 150,000

Even 3rd Form Frost is implied to be stronger than Magetta.

Ch. 9, pg. 27.7
Context: Frost and Goku resume their fight after Frost has transformed
Champa: “That’s it! Frost is one step ahead.”
Vados: “Of course. He’s the strongest warrior in our universe.”

Ch. 11, pg. 8.3
Context: Frost was quickly beaten by Vegeta
Botamo: “To think he’d lose…”
Cabba: “N-no way…”

Vegeta: 50,000
~ FPSSJ2: 500,000
~ SSJB: 3,125,000

Goku Black: 360,000
~ Adapted: 400,000
~ SSJ: 450,000
~ SSJ (Zenkai): 3,125,000
~ SSJR: 5,000,000

Post-zenkai SSJ Black had the same gap over SSB Vegeta that SSJ2 Vegeta had over pre-zenkai SSJ Black. They definitely shouldn't be equal.

Goku: 50,000
~ SSJG: 1,250,000
~ SSJB: 3,125,000
~ SSJB (Vs Zamasu): 6,250,000
~ PSSJB: 12,500,000

Vegeta (Post Rosat): 100,000
~ SSJG: 2,500,000
~ SSJB: 6,250,000

I'm not sure SSG Vegeta would be able to defend so well against somebody double his power. He didn't even look like he was struggling to do it.

Goku: 100,000
~ SSJ: 250,000
~ SSJ2: 312,500
~ SSJ3: 312,500
~ SSJG: 2,500,000
~ PSSJB: 12,500,000
~ PSSJB (Adapted): 37,500,000
~ Pseudo Kaio-Ken: 75,000,000
~ UI (Sign): 300,000,000
~ UI: 750,000,000

You fool.

And what the fuck is this "Adapted" shit you're trying to sell us with the Saiyans?

------------

Where the fuck is the Strongest Namekian? He was confident going up against Moro. That's gotta put him god tier at least. And you totally skipped Seven-Three.

Vegeta: 1,800,000
~ PSSJB: 225,000,000
~ SSJBE: 900,000,000

Not going with SSBE Vegeta (Yardrat) > UI Sign Goku? Hmmmm.

 

[SIAD]

.

 

[SIAD]

@GreatSaiyaman123

If this is about the Manga, it means that Goku and Vegeta in BoS, in the worst case, in their SSJ states they would be at the level of Kid Boo. At best, in their SSJ2 forms they should surpass Ultimate Gohan, just like in the Anime.

I think that as much as in the Anime, as in the Manga, Goku absorbs the power of SSJG in his Normal state, since in the Manga of FNF, Goku and Base Vegeta are seen with the power of the SSJG.

I think Hit (FP) beat Goku SSJG in the U6 vs U7 Tournament.

I very much agree with increasing the power of Vegeta (Post Rosat), although Vegeta did not seem superior to Goku in equal ways, I think that Goku got an axed maybe for training the Mafuba.

In the ToP, you put Goku with the same power in the forms of SSJ2 and SSJ3.

I find the power increase you gave to Goku and Vegeta PSSJB (Adapted) very interesting in the ToP. However, don't you think his powers as PSSJB should be equal to or higher in later Arcs?

I also agree that Broly LSSJ is not necessarily stronger than Jiren in the Manga. However, I do not know if it is necessary to have Moro (OG73I) well above Jiren (Beyond Limits), you could perfectly increase the power of UI Sign and UI Goku in the ToP, the same goes for Jiren (FP) and Jiren (Beyond Limits ). To diminish the colossal gap between Beerus over Vermoud. On the other hand, Vegeta SSJBE (Post Yadart) was confident of defeating a version of Moro who had supposedly defeated UI Goku.

Angel Moro has all the power of Merus when he was disappearing, therefore Merus is stronger than UI Goku (Arc Moro) and Angel Moro.

I think Granolah isn't that much stronger than Vegeta Mega Instinct.

I also think that Magetta should not by far outweigh Vegeta SSJ's power in the U6 vs U7 Tournament.

I also think that Granolah (Unused) was not much superior to UI Goku (Current), however the latter was weakening and for that reason Granolah won so easily.

Also when looking at the last chapters of the Manga, it seems that at least Vegeta SSJBE is not very far from UI Goku, which means that Goku and Vegeta have greatly progressed their powers in lower forms.

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

Beerus > SSJG Goku

Sounds like it. Checked the fight and it was pretty even, but Goku was way more tired than Beerus in the end. Could be because of Beerus' reserves though.

Even 3rd Form Frost is implied to be stronger than Magetta.

Ch. 9, pg. 27.7
Context: Frost and Goku resume their fight after Frost has transformed
Champa: “That’s it! Frost is one step ahead.”
Vados: “Of course. He’s the strongest warrior in our universe.”

Ch. 11, pg. 8.3
Context: Frost was quickly beaten by Vegeta
Botamo: “To think he’d lose…”
Cabba: “N-no way…”

Kenshi pointed out earlier in this thread that the original line says Frost was the best hand to hand fighter, not the strongest. There's also this page:

Spoiler

Post-zenkai SSJ Black had the same gap over SSB Vegeta that SSJ2 Vegeta had over pre-zenkai SSJ Black. They definitely shouldn't be equal.

Vegeta was still powerful enough to give Black another Zenkai, and they were trading blows evenly for a while before Black started to get the upperhand. Trading blows with someone slightly inferior is pretty common (Goku vs Nappa, 30k Vegeta vs Monster Zarbon), but since Vegeta's stamina was pretty shitty I think he was genuinely rivaling Black before his power started to decrease.

Goku did better than Vegeta against MZ

I'm not sure SSG Vegeta would be able to defend so well against somebody double his power. He didn't even look like he was struggling to do it.

Do you think Black should be closer to SSJG than to SSJB?

You fool.

And what the fuck is this "Adapted" shit you're trying to sell us with the Saiyans?

Chapter 74 or 75 has Vegeta saying he was getting stronger just by fighting Granolah, which confirms Saiyans get stronger by fighting. If Gohan gets a gigantic boost by fighting someone stronger than him, why not Goku?

Where the fuck is the Strongest Namekian? He was confident going up against Moro. That's gotta put him god tier at least. And you totally skipped Seven-Three.

In the trash bin, where he belongs. He's probably Piccolo level or something.

7-3 is just as strong as the people he's copying, not really worth writing home about.

Not going with SSBE Vegeta (Yardrat) > UI Sign Goku? Hmmmm.

It's easier this way. Goku was doing much better than Vegeta before Moro started to weaken. And at least I have Vegeta > Goku in equal forms to even things out.

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

@GreatSaiyaman123

If this is about the Manga, it means that Goku and Vegeta in BoS, in the worst case, in their SSJ states they would be at the level of Kid Boo. At best, in their SSJ2 forms they should surpass Ultimate Gohan, just like in the Anime.

This is the manga. Pure Boo would be a 1,200.

I think that as much as in the Anime, as in the Manga, Goku absorbs the power of SSJG in his Normal state, since in the Manga of FNF, Goku and Base Vegeta are seen with the power of the SSJG.

I don't think so. That manga was just promotional material for the movie.

I think Hit (FP) beat Goku SSJG in the U6 vs U7 Tournament.

I mean he would, but just with Time Skip.

I very much agree with increasing the power of Vegeta (Post Rosat), although Vegeta did not seem superior to Goku in equal ways, I think that Goku got an axed maybe for training the Mafuba.

I think Goku got stronger when he fought Merged Zamasu. Makes more sense than him improving with the Mafuba.

In the ToP, you put Goku with the same power in the forms of SSJ2 and SSJ3.

SSJ3 is overrated

I find the power increase you gave to Goku and Vegeta PSSJB (Adapted) very interesting in the ToP. However, don't you think his powers as PSSJB should be equal to or higher in later Arcs?

I just noticed I messed up big time with the list. They were supposed to be stronger, but I forgot to change their PSSJB numbers in the Broly and Moro Sagas

I also agree that Broly LSSJ is not necessarily stronger than Jiren in the Manga. However, I do not know if it is necessary to have Moro (OG73I) well above Jiren (Beyond Limits), you could perfectly increase the power of UI Sign and UI Goku in the ToP, the same goes for Jiren (FP) and Jiren (Beyond Limits ). To diminish the colossal gap between Beerus over Vermoud. On the other hand, Vegeta SSJBE (Post Yadart) was confident of defeating a version of Moro who had supposedly defeated UI Goku.

Broly is stronger than Jiren though. I just messed up the list.

I think Moro >> Jiren because I'm using UI Sign as a fix multiplier. MUI isn't many times stronger than UI Sign, but Goku did get many times stronger training with Merus. So Moro >> UI Sign Goku (Moro Saga) >> MUI Goku (ToP) > Jiren.

Vegeta was confident because he had Spirit Fission.

Angel Moro has all the power of Merus when he was disappearing, therefore Merus is stronger than UI Goku (Arc Moro) and Angel Moro.

Was Merus' power noted to be decreasing as he disappeared?

I think Granolah isn't that much stronger than Vegeta Mega Instinct.

Vegeta ended up getting beaten pretty badly as the fight ended. His advantage came from Granolah not being used to his power.

I also think that Magetta should not by far outweigh Vegeta SSJ's power in the U6 vs U7 Tournament.

Vegeta was pretty helpless when it came to close combat. While that can be chalked up to Magetta's metal body, Botamo still said Magetta should be the strongest.

Also when looking at the last chapters of the Manga, it seems that at least Vegeta SSJBE is not very far from UI Goku, which means that Goku and Vegeta have greatly progressed their powers in lower forms.

SSJBE Vegeta did better than UI Goku, didn't he? Do you think SSJBE Vegeta > UI Goku?

 

[SSJ2]

Sounds like it. Checked the fight and it was pretty even, but Goku was way more tired than Beerus in the end. Could be because of Beerus' reserves though.

Beerus was straight up faster than Goku by a pretty good margin.

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

Did some changes to the Broly and early Moro Sagas because I noticed Goku and Vegeta were weaker than they should be
Thankfully it doesn't really affect the later sagas though. Also lowered Granolah a bit.

@SuperSaiyan2 they seem pretty even to me. Beerus catches a punch when the fight starts, but afterwards they're trading blows evenly. The only moment Beerus appears to be faster is when he surprises Goku flying around the Hospital.

 

[SSJ2]

they seem pretty even to me. Beerus catches a punch when the fight starts, but afterwards they're trading blows evenly. The only moment Beerus appears to be faster is when he surprises Goku flying around the Hospital.

I mean that event alone is pretty telling. Beerus was dramatically faster than Goku They are rivals with Beerus having the upper hand. Definitely not equals.

 

[SIAD]

@GreatSaiyaman123

I like your new numbers, just remember that Moro (OG73I) and Vegeta SSJBE (Initial Arc Granolah) must be stronger than Broly LSSJ.

Moro (OG73I) is the toughest opponent Goku has ever faced. Goku is part of Gogeta, therefore it counts Broly LSSJ. We know that Broly is a character with a lot of durability. At the start of the Arc Granolah, Goku and Vegeta were the most powerful in Universe 7 (after Whis and Beerus).

I don't think the UI Sign and UI forms are a Multiplier, but if as the user improves their control their power increases.

 

[SSJ2]

Why is Goku magically getting twice as strong from learning the Mafuba? Tenshinhan didn't become twice as strong in the Piccolo Daimao arc. Get that shit out of here.

 

[SIAD]

Why is Goku magically getting twice as strong from learning the Mafuba? Tenshinhan didn't become twice as strong in the Piccolo Daimao arc. Get that shit out of here.

@GreatSaiyaman123

He specified that Goku doubled his power by fighting Merged Zamasu.

 

[SSJ2]

An increase of 2x would be noted. You can hardly even call it fighting, Goku got absolutely molested by MZ, and he was at a minuscule % of his power due to using the Mafuba.

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

Goku also gets visibly worn out after that hit. I’m making Beerus 10% stronger.

 

[SSJ2]

An increase of 2x would be noted. You can hardly even call it fighting, Goku got absolutely molested by MZ, and he was at a minuscule % of his power due to using the Mafuba.

Respond to this you fuck.

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

Goku said he couldn’t even keep SSJB after the Mafuba yet lasted much longer than Vegeta vs MZ. He has to get stronger at one point if he’s Vegeta’s equal by the ToP, unless Vegeta didn’t power up in the Rosat at all.

 

[SSJ2]

unless Vegeta didn’t power up in the Rosat at all.

^.