Boo arc Piccolo vs Base Saiyans
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I’m betting on the base Saiyans. Piccolo is reduced to the role of a big green Kuririn in terms of relevance, and I think his placement on the peaking order reflects that.
Piccolo, for reasons explained multiple times.
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Oh and as for why, I think Vegeta's confidence and lack of problem in fighting in base is telling. I don't see why he wouldn't be considering Piccolo to be a part of when Gohan went on inviting ppl and he saw Kuririn participating, plus the fact he regards Piccolo as quite a warrior.
Gohan also quite clearly expressed his desire of winning the thing and still proposes the non-SSJ rule... which would be bonkers if he thought that would complete nullify his chances of winning the tourney. He also knows Vegeta wants to win and suggests that he fights in base only. That all tells me the strongest Saiyans could take on Piccolo even in base.
The Babidi ship sequence where Dabura picks the strongest targets and treats Kibito, Piccolo and Kuririn as trash is weaker evidence since he obviously couldn't sense them and it seems Bobbidi used some clairvoyance power to figure out their power (like taking into account their SSJ power as that was what could fill the metter), but it's worth noting that Dabura's treatment of Piccolo as trash was never re-evaluated. And Vegeta still opts in fighting Pui Pui in base knowing the weak ones were discarded from entering the ship. Kaioshin also is shitting bricks at base Vegeta's power. Yeah, it's a weaker evidence as counters can be dished out, but it's a cherry on top. Piccolo is just never given the same respect.
But I don't think Piccolo is irrelevant in the CGs as a result of that. Rather, I think he's in the 50% Goku's vicinity... I just think the base Saiyans are that strong, which is easy to meet when you don't work with set multipliers.
Gohan also quite clearly expressed his desire of winning the thing and still proposes the non-SSJ rule... which would be bonkers if he thought that would complete nullify his chances of winning the tourney. He also knows Vegeta wants to win and suggests that he fights in base only. That all tells me the strongest Saiyans could take on Piccolo even in base.
The Babidi ship sequence where Dabura picks the strongest targets and treats Kibito, Piccolo and Kuririn as trash is weaker evidence since he obviously couldn't sense them and it seems Bobbidi used some clairvoyance power to figure out their power (like taking into account their SSJ power as that was what could fill the metter), but it's worth noting that Dabura's treatment of Piccolo as trash was never re-evaluated. And Vegeta still opts in fighting Pui Pui in base knowing the weak ones were discarded from entering the ship. Kaioshin also is shitting bricks at base Vegeta's power. Yeah, it's a weaker evidence as counters can be dished out, but it's a cherry on top. Piccolo is just never given the same respect.
But I don't think Piccolo is irrelevant in the CGs as a result of that. Rather, I think he's in the 50% Goku's vicinity... I just think the base Saiyans are that strong, which is easy to meet when you don't work with set multipliers.
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Or maybe the filling of Goku Base (Final Other World Tournament) >= Pikkon (Weighted) > SPC.Or maybe CG Gohan was 20x above Galu
Maybe SSJ2 Gohan got like 100x stronger in his Final Burst against SPC.
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Cell would have to increase his power tens of times then simply by "showing my real speed"Or maybe CG Gohan was 20x above Galu
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The Base Saiyans. There's loads of evidence for this too.
The Saiyans decide to fight in Base in the 25th Budokai. Piccolo implies Kaioshin is stronger than him in the Budokai, who turns out to be weaker than the Base Saiyans as well.
Base Gohan seems to be a lot stronger than Kibito going by the evidence involving the Zeta Sword, who is implied to be around Kaioshin's level of strength.
There's other instances of Base Saiyan wank in the Boo Saga in general. Gotenks surpassing his Super Saiyan form in his Base Form in the ROSAT, as well as the Saiyans fighting in Base during the 28th Budokai, and Goku is able to fight on par with Oob in Base, who is as strong as Kid Boo was.
Those who believe Piccolo > Base Saiyans tend to only use the evidence we see in the Cell Games, which does point to that being the case, but I would rather apply the Boo Saga's logic to Piccolo's strength because I like to think of it as a retcon instead of just calling it messy writing like those who argue Piccolo > Base Saiyans, even if the Boo Saga does indeed suck. There's more evidence for Base Saiyans > Piccolo than there is Piccolo > Base Saiyans, anyway.
The Saiyans decide to fight in Base in the 25th Budokai. Piccolo implies Kaioshin is stronger than him in the Budokai, who turns out to be weaker than the Base Saiyans as well.
Base Gohan seems to be a lot stronger than Kibito going by the evidence involving the Zeta Sword, who is implied to be around Kaioshin's level of strength.
There's other instances of Base Saiyan wank in the Boo Saga in general. Gotenks surpassing his Super Saiyan form in his Base Form in the ROSAT, as well as the Saiyans fighting in Base during the 28th Budokai, and Goku is able to fight on par with Oob in Base, who is as strong as Kid Boo was.
Those who believe Piccolo > Base Saiyans tend to only use the evidence we see in the Cell Games, which does point to that being the case, but I would rather apply the Boo Saga's logic to Piccolo's strength because I like to think of it as a retcon instead of just calling it messy writing like those who argue Piccolo > Base Saiyans, even if the Boo Saga does indeed suck. There's more evidence for Base Saiyans > Piccolo than there is Piccolo > Base Saiyans, anyway.
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Well, Freeza raised his power by 20 times without even flaring up an auraCell would have to increase his power tens of times then simply by "showing my real speed"
And Super Boo held back to like 1/6th of his full strength even going by the low SEG multipliers, against SSJ Gotenks
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Well at least there was all a suspension built over Freeza with him saying 50% of his power is enough and Goku making a scared face of "I can't win!"... they paused for a moment and the scene was really intense, even if there wasn't a visible power up. As for Super Boo, him breaking through the dimensions seemed a really big power up, with that ass screaming. I guess he likes fooling around a little bit, as he enjoys combats. Fat Boo held back most of the time and Bootenks fooled around against Gohan.Well, Freeza raised his power by 20 times without even flaring up an aura
And Super Boo held back to like 1/6th of his full strength even going by the low SEG multipliers, against SSJ Gotenks
With Cell, no one commented on how he was way more capable than before. Gohan showed a little surprise at his speed, but the improvement was just not that notable, it seems.
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Well, Jackie seems to be close to Match level Goku. And he noticed how Tenshinhan's finger attack seems like a bullet speed or something like that if I recall.
But I didn't say silent power ups need to be low. Piccolo also went from Base Saiyan tier to somewhat close to the SSJs all while doing a silent power up vs Gero. I'm just saying Cell's real speed isn't given that much of a focus to be a big power up.
But I didn't say silent power ups need to be low. Piccolo also went from Base Saiyan tier to somewhat close to the SSJs all while doing a silent power up vs Gero. I'm just saying Cell's real speed isn't given that much of a focus to be a big power up.
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Idk the manga did a lot of these silent power ups before powering up with auras and making the ground around you shake all the time became the norm.
Just look at Nappa getting 2x stronger with almost no explanation beyond "calming down" (even though he technically did do a power up grunt) or Daimao becoming massively stronger wiht a silent power up by taking off his robe lol
Just look at Nappa getting 2x stronger with almost no explanation beyond "calming down" (even though he technically did do a power up grunt) or Daimao becoming massively stronger wiht a silent power up by taking off his robe lol
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Well with Daimao I'd say that we were clearly shown he got way stronger as Goku got the better of him before and he tanked Goku's KMHMH afterwards. As for Cell, his attack post the speed up didn't really have the same impact and hadn't that much of an effect on Gohan. Same for Nappa. I get your point tho.
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It did after the first attack though.
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What bothers me the most isn’t even Cell’s silent power up, but the fact he initially thought he only had to raise his speed. Wtf was he thinking?
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Piccolo
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Freeza said the same thing. More speed generally means more power.
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Gohan went out of the rocks undamaged.
