Boo saga Goten and Trunks ~ CGs Trunks and Vegeta

[ahill1]

Is that lowballing or an ok placement?

 

[SIAD]

@Power Level Guy

 

[SIAD]

I have: Vegeta SSJ (CG) > Future Trunks SSJ (CG) = Trunks SSJ (ToP) >= Goten SSJ (ToP) >= Trunks SSJ (Post Rosat) >= Goten SSJ (Post Rosat).

 

[ahill1]

Well, maybe the kids being ~ Cell Juniors can be a placement to consider

 

[Power Level Guy]

According to the Super manga, Kid Trunks (ToP) = Future Trunks CG. Stated by Vegeta.

You can take this in a number of ways. Perhaps they've progressed slightly, perhaps they've regressed slightly.

But the canon material is pointing towards them being a specific power at a specific time.

There is no more concrete of a placement for them than the Cell Jrs. They do appear to be a bit stronger than that in the Buu Saga initially and then seem to do a significant power up on top of that, but you'd have to be able to work that all in with the concrete statement from Super.

Well, maybe the kids being ~ Cell Juniors can be a placement to consider

It's much more than a place to consider, it's their defacto power level ability. We've never had such a concrete placement for the kids before Super.

 

[ahill1]

Ok, but you need to know Vegeta knew 17 didn't see future Trunks post RoSaT... And that such a statement may just be a roundabout way of saying his son is also capable, as the task didn't require much. Didn't require strength. Whatever Vegeta said would convey the point. They also were fending off more than one Cell Junior, they each defended hits from two at least.

 

[Animelover5487]

Ok, but you need to know Vegeta knew 17 didn't see future Trunks post RoSaT... And that such a statement may just be a roundabout way of saying his son is also capable, as the task didn't require much. Didn't require strength. Whatever Vegeta said would convey the point. They also were fending off more than one Cell Junior, they each defended hits from two at least.

Good argument. This is why I don't take statements like Goku saying #17 is almost about as strong as us, when feats wise he had a drawn out fight with Dyspo while SSJB Vegeta 1-shot Dyspo.

It's just a roundabout way of saying "he's strong".

 

[ahill1]

Even more so in Vegeta's case. What Trunks needed to do was protect the island against random poachers. Whatever comparison Vegeta made to the Trunks 17 knew would get the 17's confidence all the same. He didn't need to get into specifics about power comparisons in a matter as trivial as protecting the island from normal earthlings.

 

[Father]

Isn’t it stated that 17 experienced everything thru Cell during the whole Cell saga while he was absorbed?

If Cell sensed Trunks, then 17 should have
an idea of his strength right?

 

[Hector]

Is that lowballing or an ok placement?

Where was that implied?

The kids could hold their own against SSJ Gohan and SSJ Vegeta at Buu Saga. They're much stronger than Cell Juniors.

 

[Power Level Guy]

Ok, but you need to know Vegeta knew 17 didn't see future Trunks post RoSaT

Vegeta's statement implies he does know that 17 can see from within Cell. The burden of proof is on you to prove Vegeta does not know.

And that such a statement may just be a roundabout way of saying his son is also capable, as the task didn't require much. Didn't require strength.

This is an illogical point. He literally says "same strength". Then goes on to show strength on par with a Cell Jr. I mean, I don't know what more the author could have done to make his point.

They also were fending off more than one Cell Junior, they each defended hits from two at least.

And the Cell Jrs are clearly toying.

It's just a roundabout way of saying "he's strong".

Vegeta literally says the same strength.

Whatever comparison Vegeta made to the Trunks 17 knew would get the 17's confidence all the same. He didn't need to get into specifics about power comparisons in a matter as trivial as protecting the island from normal earthlings.

He got into a specific power statement. He directly said Kid Trunks is the same strength as Future Trunks. It could not be any clearer about the strength of Kid Trunks.

Isn’t it stated that 17 experienced everything thru Cell during the whole Cell saga while he was absorbed?

Yes, 17 makes this remark himself to 18 prior to ToP I believe. So Vegeta could have gotten the information from 18 as well as 17.

If Cell sensed Trunks, then 17 should have
an idea of his strength right?

Vegeta implies he saw his power, not sensed it. 17 can see the power of everyone accurately is what is implied by the story.

The kids could hold their own against SSJ Gohan and SSJ Vegeta at Buu Saga. They're much stronger than Cell Juniors.

That was just sparring. Piccolo and Gohan could hold their own against Goku in sparring for the Androids. Sparring and real fighting are two different worlds.

 

[Hector]

That was just sparring. Piccolo and Gohan could hold their own against Goku in sparring for the Androids. Sparring and real fighting are two different worlds.

Vegeta had a bet, which means he had no reason to hold back, and still struggled to avoid Trunks's punches. Stop ignoring the evidence provided in the original manga for the sake of a sequel written partly by an older, mentally disabled Akira and partly by money-hungry assistants who don't give a shit about the original story.

 

[Dagon]

I think it is a reasonable placement. Future Trunks used SSJ to kill future 17 and 18, so his base likely wasn't quite into one-shot territory against them, which is likely what he wanted to do. With base kid Trunks matching present 18 who is stronger than future 18 to a small or moderate degree I think it can work. It would kind of mean base Future Trunks was a little stronger than future 18 but I don't think he wanted to take chances by starting the fight in base.

 

[Power Level Guy]

Vegeta had a bet, which means he had no reason to hold back, and still struggled to avoid Trunks's punches.

Are you suggesting that Trunks could have landed those in a real fight?

 

[Hector]

Are you suggesting that Trunks could have landed those in a real fight?

Why was that not a real fight?

 

[Power Level Guy]

Why was that not a real fight?

Then Kid Trunks is closer to Vegeta than Zarbon was to Vegeta.

 

[MikaelHarding]

did goten and trunks master their super saiyan forms in TBTC

 

[Power Level Guy]

Vegeta had a bet, which means he had no reason to hold back, and still struggled to avoid Trunks's punches. Stop ignoring the evidence provided in the original manga for the sake of a sequel written partly by an older, mentally disabled Akira and partly by money-hungry assistants who don't give a shit about the original story.

This is an invalid argument. The author is allowed to change previously conceived notions of his work.

The author has decided to add to his work many years later, changing many people's ideas of what was into what now is.

This is how it works. Your previous idea of what was is no longer valid. The author's current idea of what is supersedes your opinion.

 

[ahill1]

Isn’t it stated that 17 experienced everything thru Cell during the whole Cell saga while he was absorbed?

If Cell sensed Trunks, then 17 should have
an idea of his strength right?

Yes, but did Vegeta know that?

 

[SIAD]

did goten and trunks master their super saiyan forms in TBTC

What Is it TBTC?