Can Kaioshin's power be felt by mortals?

[Dragon Ball Fan]

In the original manga, Vegeta states that no one of them could estimate Kaioshin's powers when he was in front of Piccolo ready to fight him, but is that enough? Maybe Vegeta couldn't get a reading on him since he was suppressed.

It's interesting that in Super, Piccolo states that no one could sense SSG Goku's Ki since divine beings couldn't be sensed by mortals... but is SSG and Beerus's Ki the same as East Kaioshin's? After all, Piccolo seemed to have no qualms attempting to attack Beerus while he was too tense to attempt anything against Kaioshin. So maybe SSG's and Beerus's Ki are even more masked still than Kaioshin's one?

 

[Papasmurf]

The end of the Moro arc seems to imply a Kaioshin's God ki is even more potent than regular God ki if anything, considering Oob's God power that he inherited from half of Dai Kaioshit's God power was greater than Vegeta and the other Z senshi combined. I just think East Kaioshin has done so little training that he doesn't have a large amount of God ki, even though it is very potent due to his Kaioshin nature.

 

[Dragon Ball Fan]

The end of the Moro arc seems to imply a Kaioshin's God ki is even more potent than regular God ki if anything, considering Oob's God power that he inherited from half of Dai Kaioshit's God power was greater than Vegeta and the other Z senshi combined. I just think East Kaioshin has done so little training that he doesn't have a large amount of God ki, even though it is very potent due to his Kaioshin nature.

Speaking of Shin specifically, do you think he could be felt?

I've the impression that Beerus's divine presence is even more masked and harder to be felt than Shin's as Piccolo attempted to attack him and was stopped by Vegeta, while against Shin, Piccolo's instincts told him not to do anything.

 

[Papasmurf]

Maybe it's because having Kami inside him causes him to be wary of Gods who are his superior? Piccolo assumed at first that Shin was the Dai Kaio after all. Beerus seems to be the exception because he's not a god of creation like Kami, the Kaios or Kaioshins, but a god of destruction.

 

[Dragon Ball Fan]

Maybe it's because having Kami inside him causes him to be wary of Gods who are his superior? Piccolo assumed at first that Shin was the Dai Kaio after all. Beerus seems to be the exception because he's not a god of creation like Kami, the Kaios or Kaioshins, but a god of destruction.

Beerus is still superior in the hierarchy from Piccolo. He isn't a God of creation though, yeah.

Kaio-Sama's Ki could be also felt as Goku teleports to his planets quite a few times. Do we have something explicitily separating Shin from Kaio-Sama?

 

[Papasmurf]

Kaioshin and Kibito's ki couldn't be used to fuel Boo's ball while people stronger than them like Goku, Vegeta and Gohan could be. Lower tier Gods like Dende (a Kami of Earth) could be sensed by mortals as well. Seems like upper-tier gods like Kaioshins and Hakaishins have a different type of ki.

 

[SSJ2]

Definitely not. Kaioshin makes it clear that Piccolo was beginning to uncover his identity due to being the former god of earth. This directly tells us that Piccolo was assuming based on the lack of ki signature that Kaioshin was a godly being. If Piccolo was able to sense his God ki there would have been no reason to speculate whether he was the Dai Kaio or not.

 

[Dragon Ball Fan]

Kaioshin and Kibito's ki couldn't be used to fuel Boo's ball while people stronger than them like Goku, Vegeta and Gohan could be. Lower tier Gods like Dende (a Kami of Earth) could be sensed by mortals as well. Seems like upper-tier gods like Kaioshins and Hakaishins have a different type of ki.

I always assumed that there was an incompability between the Kaioshins and Buu, since the Potara (described as the treasure of the Kaioshins) couldn't be maintained inside Buu's body -- until Super's shitty retcon.

 

[Captain Cadaver]

Along with what Kenshi and SSJ2 have said, Super further debunks the idea that the Dragon Team couldn't sense Shin with Dende sensing Beerus whereas Piccolo had no idea of his identity or power. It's pretty clear they couldn't sense him, Piccolo included; who at best would've had an inkling of who he may be.

 

[Dragon Ball Fan]

Along with what Kenshi and SSJ2 have said, Super further debunks the idea that the Dragon Team couldn't sense Shin with Dende sensing Beerus whereas Piccolo had no idea of his identity or power. It's pretty clear they couldn't sense him, Piccolo included; who at best would've had an inkling of who he may be.

Sure, but couldn't Beerus have a different chi mechanism from Shin despite both being Gods? We know all Gods aren't the same, as Kaio and Kami-Sama could be sensed.

 

[SSJ2]

Doubt it. The fact that Oob's god ki was compatible with Goku should be evidence that it works the same for anyone. Furthermore, the gods at the ToP exhibition never made the distinction that SSJG's ki was any different than their own.

 

[Dragon Ball Fan]

Doubt it. The fact that Oob's god ki was compatible with Goku should be evidence that it works the same for anyone. Furthermore, the gods at the ToP exhibition never made the distinction that SSJG's ki was any different than their own.

It's also clear that not all Godly powers work the same. Kaio-Sama is a deity and can be sensed easily. I also raised the point of Piccolp being ready to attack Beers, while he dien't even attempt to raise a hand against Kaioshin, which to me shows that Beers' presence is more subtle.

 

[Boo Brand Milk]

Spoiler

 

[SSJ2]

Doubt it. The fact that Oob's god ki was compatible with Goku should be evidence that it works the same for anyone. Furthermore, the gods at the ToP exhibition never made the distinction that SSJG's ki was any different than their own.

It's also clear that not all Godly powers work the same. Kaio-Sama is a deity and can be sensed easily. I also raised the point of Piccolp being ready to attack Beers, while he dien't even attempt to raise a hand against Kaioshin, which to me shows that Beers' presence is more subtle.

Different context. He was fighting Kaioshin in a Budokai setting and was suspecting that he was the Dai Kaio. He had no intention of pounding in the face of a Dai Kaio. Berus was directly threatening earth/the Z Senshi.

Kaio isn't really relevant here. He was never treated as a being who had God ki. The potency of God ki seems to be the only thing that changes based on the god. As I mentioned, Oob's ki shouldn't have been compatible with Goku if they functioned differently.

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

Probably not. He is a god after all, and there are statements in the series about how his power couldn't be felt, both in the original series and Super.

With Piccolo, I think he was able to see Kaioshin's power when the later established a psychic link between them.

 

[Dragon Ball Fan]

Doubt it. The fact that Oob's god ki was compatible with Goku should be evidence that it works the same for anyone. Furthermore, the gods at the ToP exhibition never made the distinction that SSJG's ki was any different than their own.

It's also clear that not all Godly powers work the same. Kaio-Sama is a deity and can be sensed easily. I also raised the point of Piccolp being ready to attack Beers, while he dien't even attempt to raise a hand against Kaioshin, which to me shows that Beers' presence is more subtle.

Different context. He was fighting Kaioshin in a Budokai setting and was suspecting that he was the Dai Kaio. He had no intention of pounding in the face of a Dai Kaio. Berus was directly threatening earth/the Z Senshi.

Kaio isn't really relevant here. He was never treated as a being who had God ki. The potency of God ki seems to be the only thing that changes based on the god. As I mentioned, Oob's ki shouldn't have been compatible with Goku if they functioned differently.

Beerus was threatening the Earth and the Z group but Piccolo didn't show any hesitance in attacking him. In fact, the thought of him being a God was only cultivated by him when Vegeta spoke so. That's quite different from his situation with Kaioshin where he was nervous the entire time, so the differing context doesn't really completely voids the comparison.

Kaio is relevant because he's also a God. Piccolo literally mentions that the Ki of deities can't be sensed by mortals. Kaio is a deity. He has God Ki in him. Oob's Ki also came from Dai Kaio. I'm specifically talking about Shin here.

 

[SSJ2]

It's also clear that not all Godly powers work the same. Kaio-Sama is a deity and can be sensed easily. I also raised the point of Piccolp being ready to attack Beers, while he dien't even attempt to raise a hand against Kaioshin, which to me shows that Beers' presence is more subtle.

Different context. He was fighting Kaioshin in a Budokai setting and was suspecting that he was the Dai Kaio. He had no intention of pounding in the face of a Dai Kaio. Berus was directly threatening earth/the Z Senshi.

Kaio isn't really relevant here. He was never treated as a being who had God ki. The potency of God ki seems to be the only thing that changes based on the god. As I mentioned, Oob's ki shouldn't have been compatible with Goku if they functioned differently.

Beerus was threatening the Earth and the Z group but Piccolo didn't show any hesitance in attacking him. In fact, the thought of him being a God was only cultivated by him when Vegeta spoke so. That's quite different from his situation with Kaioshin where he was nervous the entire time, so the differing context doesn't really completely voids the comparison.

Kaio is relevant because he's also a God. Piccolo literally mentions that the Ki of deities can't be sensed by mortals. Kaio is a deity. He has God Ki in him. Oob's Ki also came from Dai Kaio. I'm specifically talking about Shin here.

For what reason would there be to shoehorn in a statement from Piccolo regarding Beerus' status? The entire sequence of Beerus going to earth was skipped over and began in the midst of battle. Regardless, Piccolo was clearly nervous and was still going to engage in a battle that he knew he couldn't win. Piccolo wasn't going to refrain from attacking Beerus regardless of his suspicions.

Well, I think it goes back to potency. You're not wrong in saying that the ki signature of a lower being with god ki would be different than a higher being. Dende said his divine power was still in its development stages in the Moro arc, and it stands to reason that his ki could still be sensed. However it was established in the Boo arc that nobody could sense the ki of Kaioshin, and we've never been given reason to believe otherwise (such as Goku teleporting directly to Kaio). I'm not sure why he would be a special case in comparison to Dai Kaioshin when they are both Kaioshin. Dai Kaioshin's ki was still usable to another God ki user, directly showing us that it works no different than anyone else's, it's simply more powerful.

Also how's ahill1 doing?

 

[Dragon Ball Fan]

Also how's ahill1 doing?

Hehe, so my disguise was uncovered. I was honestly playing devil's advocate with this one. Since you're aware of my full opinion on this, no need to engage further.

I honestly created this accound wayyy back so I could defend some positions I didn't use to defend, as a way to not sound like I change stances on a daily bases, but well, no need for it anymore.

But still I was legitimately interested in this thread and I think that as far as the original manga goes, there's nothing definitive. I got back from a hiatus creating this thread and thought using this dupe would allow more wiggle room to lash some new opinions.

Things have been rough due to covid, but I'm taking one day at a time and trying to keep busy.

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

Ahill is only doing this because he's arguing with someone with this stance back on Neo

 

[SSJ2]

Lol. Why not just state that you are playing devil's advocate in the first place. Nobody would accuse you of changing views if you did so.

And I agree that there's nothing definitive. It becomes overly complicated when trying to mix Super and Z together when its clear that God ki wasn't a concept back then (until Kaioshin/SSjin 3 Kibito arrived).