Can Kaioshin's power be felt by mortals?

[Captain Cadaver]

Again, it could be that Shin's chi couldn't be felt from there, as I pointed out.

That'd only be possible if Shin's Ki was astronomically smaller than Gohan's, something very unlikely on its own and even more unlikely that distance made such a difference when Goku sensed Gohan clear enough to be positive it was him.

 

[ahill1]

Again, it could be that Shin's chi couldn't be felt from there, as I pointed out.

That'd only be possible if Shin's Ki was astronomically smaller than Gohan's, something very unlikely on its own and even more unlikely that distance made such a difference when Goku sensed Gohan clear enough to be positive it was him.

He doesn't have to be astronomically weaker... only weaker to a point his chi couldn't cross the barrier that Gohan's could. Gohan was also actively working himself with the Zeta-sword, while Shin was just standing by, which can also affect how their chis are perceived.

 

[Captain Cadaver]

He doesn't have to be astronomically weaker... only weaker to a point his chi couldn't cross the barrier that Gohan's could. Gohan was also actively working himself with the Zeta-sword, while Shin was just standing by, which can also affect how their chis are perceived.

If he couldn't cross the boundary Gohan's could despite Goku sensing him clearly, then that would require him to be astronomically weaker. I doubt the fact that Shin was just standing around would matter either when Galu was able to pinpoint a vastly weaker Ki like Bulma's just earlier that day.

 

[ahill1]

He doesn't have to be astronomically weaker... only weaker to a point his chi couldn't cross the barrier that Gohan's could. Gohan was also actively working himself with the Zeta-sword, while Shin was just standing by, which can also affect how their chis are perceived.

If he couldn't cross the boundary Gohan's could despite Goku sensing him clearly, then that would require him to be astronomically weaker. I doubt the fact that Shin was just standing around would matter either when Galu was able to pinpoint a vastly weaker Ki like Bulma's just earlier that day.

We saw that SSJ2 Goku couldn't grab Gohan's attention through Earth -- Kaioshin's realm, while SSJ3 Goku could, much to everyone's surprise. That was a 4x difference, so I can see the same happening to a 2x gap or so. Many also belive that fat Boo couldn't grab their attention through Earth -- Kaioshin's plane, which just narrows the gap even more.

With Bulma, he was actively searching for her, while he made no conscious effort to look for Shin's chi.

 

[ahill1]

Edit.

 

[Evil Vegeta]

Classic topic.

When Goten and Trunks showed up, Goten pointed out that the "weirdo" from the tournament was there. Trunks then questioned if they killed him, so he's not sure if Kaioshin is alive or dead right there.

Once Piccolo regenerated, he began to take note of everything. Piccolo is only made aware of Kaioshin's presence when Bobbidi tells Boo to eat him. Prior to that, he doesn't appear to know he's there.

We see Kibito immediately sense Kaioshin's Chi a few moments after he's revived. Unlike Piccolo and the kids, Kibito was a good distance away from him.

I don't think everyone is just constantly missing his Chi. Everything points to it not being sensible by mortals. Kibito is the only one who could sense Kaioshin.

 

[ahill1]

Classic topic.

When Goten and Trunks showed up, Goten pointed out that the "weirdo" from the tournament was there. Trunks then questioned if they killed him, so he's not sure if Kaioshin is alive or dead right there.

Once Piccolo regenerated, he began to take note of everything. Piccolo is only made aware of Kaioshin's presence when Bobbidi tells Boo to eat him. Prior to that, he doesn't appear to know he's there.

We see Kibito immediately sense Kaioshin's Chi a few moments after he's revived. Unlike Piccolo and the kids, Kibito was a good distance away from him.

I don't think everyone is just constantly missing his Chi. Everything points to it not being sensible by mortals. Kibito is the only one who could sense Kaioshin.

Hi there, EV!

Don't you think it could be that Kibito is more in-tune with Kakoshin? After all, the first chis Goku senses when he wakes up are Piccolo and Kuririn's...maybe familiarity has something to do with it.

 

[Evil Vegeta]

Hi ahill.

Didn't Goku immediately sense Boo's Chi when he woke up? I know he had already sensed him earlier, but even then, Goku thought Boo's Chi was pretty weird. I believe he tried to sense Vegeta and Gohan, but was unable to.

Piccolo and Krillin would probably stand out more because of the size of their Chi in that moment. On top of that, Goku last saw them as statues, so their Chi being normal again would probably grab his attention based on that.

 

[ahill1]

Hi ahill.

Didn't Goku immediately sense Boo's Chi when he woke up? I know he had already sensed him earlier, but even then, Goku thought Boo's Chi was pretty weird. I believe he tried to sense Vegeta and Gohan, but was unable to.

Piccolo and Krillin would probably stand out more because of the size of their Chi in that moment. On top of that, Goku last saw them as statues, so their Chi being normal again would probably grab his attention based on that.

True, he first senses Boo's chi. I just think that him missing Shin's chi at first (most presumably), while that's the first thing Kibito does, could maybe speak more to their priority when waking up.

 

[Evil Vegeta]

I feel like after Piccolo's brief facedown with Kaioshin, he'd at least be the most likely to sense his Chi. When Bobbidi tells Boo to eat Kaioshin, only then is he aware that Kaioshin is on the battlefield. Surely he would've at least sensed him prior to that.

The only other thing I can think of is Goku believing he had a place to teleport to when Boo was about to destroy the Earth. Is he thinking about teleporting to the Kaioshin realm or somewhere else? If it's to the Kaioshin realm, then maybe there is some detectable Chi for him to lock onto. Or Old Kaioshin being mixed with a Witch allowed him to have sensible Chi.

Looking at everything entirely, I feel like Kaioshin just can't be sensed.

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

[mention]Evil Vegeta[/mention] didn’t Piccolo and co. also fail to pick up on Gohan’s Ki though? It just sounds like his Ki got too small to be tracked, or they flat out missed it.

 

[SSJ2]

None of that counters the fact that Piccolo couldn’t sense Kaioshin after being revived and needed to physically see him to notice his presence. I also pointed out that Goku was able to sense Piccolo’s ki until the moment that he died in the Saiyan arc, and he was at a far greater distance from the battlefield than Piccolo was to Kaioshin. Kibito noticing Kaioshin’s ki right away is the dealbreaker. Kaioshin had enough power to walk on his own so in terms of ki level, he’d be much higher than Piccolo was at death in the Saiyan arc. I don’t buy the “Kibito is more familiar with his ki” argument. It discredits the mastery over ki that the Z Senshi have. There’s simply no way that they’d be unable to sense a dying God ki that they have been able to sense many times. Why would they need to be around Kaioshin for millions of years to become accustomed to his ki? Nonsense.

Ahill’s point about only Gohan picking up on Dende’s ki doesn’t really translate here. You can argue that Piccolo was emotionally distressed when he thought Kaioshin had died, but Goku wasn’t when he woke up from his battle with Vegeta. He calmly and coolly sensed Piccolo, Krillin, and instantly knew that Vegeta and Gohan’s ki were missing. As I said before, his surprise at Kaioshin’s death further backs up the fact that he couldn’t sense his ki. Goku wasn’t expecting Kaioshin to be dead despite not noticing his ki upon waking up. Have yet to see any valid counters to these points.

 

[ahill1]

I feel like after Piccolo's brief facedown with Kaioshin, he'd at least be the most likely to sense his Chi. When Bobbidi tells Boo to eat Kaioshin, only then is he aware that Kaioshin is on the battlefield. Surely he would've at least sensed him prior to that.

I also think it's possible that Boo's chi masked Kaioshin's in some way. Kaioshin could barely move himself while Boo's chi was unprecedented and bigger than anything they had sensed before. Not too surprising that Piccolo didn't catch on it at first imo.

Ahill’s point about only Gohan picking up on Dende’s ki doesn’t really translate here. You can argue that Piccolo was emotionally distressed when he thought Kaioshin had died, but Goku wasn’t when he woke up from his battle with Vegeta. He calmly and coolly sensed Piccolo, Krillin, and instantly knew that Vegeta and Gohan’s ki were missing

Piccolo could also be distressed when momentarily waking up and catching on this new huge unkown chi, which could have masked Kaioshin's chi.

And like I said, Kibito could just be "more prone" to feel Kaioshin. He's his attendant, assistant, whatever he was... which could leave him more open to track him. It's also likely the first thing he does, trying to locate Kaioshin... which could have prompted him to sense him immediately. Goku didn't and then was caught by the chis he already knew before.

Kaioshin was also on the verge of collapsing when Goku woke up. His draining state and very diminute chi doesn't make it too hard for someone who wasn't actively trying to spot him to have missed it.

 

[Evil Vegeta]

About the "more prone" part...how would you describe Boo's abnormal Chi? We know he's a magical monster, but he's composed of two Gods that are basically of the same nature as Kaioshin. It didn't take long for everyone to become accustomed to his Chi despite the abnormality.

I find it hard to believe that Kaioshin's Chi is actually detectable, yet so difficult to comprehend because of how different it is. I feel that same reasoning should apply to Boo.

 

[Captain Cadaver]

About the "more prone" part...how would you describe Boo's abnormal Chi? We know he's a magical monster, but he's composed of two Gods that are basically of the same nature as Kaioshin.

Considering Rou Dai Kaioshin hypothesised something as associated with the Kaioshin as the Potara's magic could be undone by the nature of Boo's body without contradiction from Kibitoshin as well as the abnormal effect Dai Kaioshin had on Boo, I'd say his magical nature is far different to the Kaioshin regardless of their presence within him.

It didn't take long for everyone to become accustomed to his Chi despite the abnormality.

That may not be the case, given this statement by Toriyama:

https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/dragonball/images/2/29/Tori_interview.jpg/revision/latest/scale-to-width-down/1000?cb=20160419071644

"The frightening thing about Majin Buu is his unknown, unfathomable power. Whether it's actually not that much, or really stupendous, Majin Buu himself probably doesn't know the answer."

Sounds as though it's impossible for characters to tell how powerful Boo really is from sensing alone based on that, with those that offer a benchmark to him or others having to gauge him through his movements in battle.

 

[ahill1]

About the "more prone" part...how would you describe Boo's abnormal Chi? We know he's a magical monster, but he's composed of two Gods that are basically of the same nature as Kaioshin. It didn't take long for everyone to become accustomed to his Chi despite the abnormality.

I find it hard to believe that Kaioshin's Chi is actually detectable, yet so difficult to comprehend because of how different it is. I feel that same reasoning should apply to Boo.

That's true, I think that Boo's chi abnormality could have to do with Kaioshin. It makes it harder to be sensed and predicted, I guess.

But we also have the warriors under the Majin spell not having their chis detected by the Z warriors, such as Spopovich and Dabura... maybe eveything Boo-related is harder to be gauged too? Idk, I think that might have something to do with it as well.