Cell arc Vegeta

[Future Warrior]

Wouldn't defeating Semi Cell already prove that point though? And Cell stated that Vegeta is itching for a challenge since he is a Saiyajin. His Saiyajin nature in wishing for a challenge was brought up, not his necessity to prove a point.

I don't quite remember what was said during that fight, so you may be right. Honestly, the Saiyan urge for a challenge seems inconsistently portrayed in the story. Everytime something comes up to question their power, they get temper tantrums and resort to cheap tactics to obtain their wins. More often than not it's shown that Saiyans get off on murder and destruction towards people who are hopeless and weak.

Plus, when he thought he had achieved the SSJ against Freeza, he left out a "it was me after all, Kakarrot!!" while attacking Freeza, so he was in some sort of conflict with Goku there already.

Which was what I've been arguing for this entire time. Did you not read my previous posts?

 

[ahill1]

I don't quite remember what was said during that fight, so you may be right. Honestly, the Saiyan urge for a challenge seems inconsistently portrayed in the story. Everytime something comes up to question their power, they get temper tantrums and resort to cheap tactics to obtain their wins. More often than not it's shown that Saiyans get off on murder and destruction towards people who are hopeless and weak.

Which is then Vegeta's main motive behind his act. Not his necessity to prove himself as superior.

Which was what I've been arguing for this entire time. Did you not read my previous posts?

I've read your previous posts. How does this point help you case, exactly? You said Vegeta's intense rivalry with Goku explains his demeanor change, while this line shows Vegeta's rivalry with Goku was also a thing Vegeta cared about in the Freeza arc. Did the example just completely go over your head? Come on.

 

[Future Warrior]

Which is then Vegeta's main motive behind his act. Not his necessity to prove himself as superior.

Just read through the dialogue, and nah. What Cell says doesn't confirm Vegeta's true motive on the matter.

I've read your previous posts. How does this point help you case, exactly? You said Vegeta's intense rivalry with Goku explains his demeanor change, while this line shows Vegeta's rivalry with Goku was also a thing Vegeta cared about in the Freeza arc. Did the example just completely go over your head? Come on.

Well it still feels you don't understand exactly what is being discussed here. I've said before that his obsession was still a thing during the Namek arc, but it was dialed up by 10 when Goku was shown to be a SSJ.

Just out of curiosity, what else did you feel was out of character for Vegeta besides letting Cell reach his perfect form?

 

[ahill1]

Just read through the dialogue, and nah. What Cell says doesn't confirm Vegeta's true motive on the matter. 

That's what was mentioned. Veteta's enjoyment with a big challenge. Vegeta even said "you understand us well". It's just that Vegeta acting that way triggered by Goku wasn't mentioned anywhere, or shed light onto. You're adding that up.

Well it still feels you don't understand exactly what is being discussed here. I've said before that his obsession was still a thing during the Namek arc, but it was dialed up by 10 when Goku was shown to be a SSJ. 

I know what's being argued. You are acting like Goku's first acquiring of SSJ has changed Vegeta to a point that now he's throwing cautiousness into the wind all to prove a point. Seems like your opinion. When has Vegeta ever mentioned that Goku obtaining it first has set him off badly? In fact, he mentioned Goku saving him when throwing a fit and explaining his desire to fight him in the Boo arc. Goku achieving SSJ first was never mentioned.

Vegeta achieved it and surpassed Goku... then he went into the RoSaT and widened the gap to a new level... yet Goku achieving it first has changed Vegeta to a point he'd be willing to take risks even though Goku obtaining it first was never mentioned as a fact that took their rivalry to a new level or as a thing that was bothering him like the fact he was saved. So yeah, that sounds BS.

 

[Future Warrior]

Just read through the dialogue, and nah. What Cell says doesn't confirm Vegeta's true motive on the matter. 

That's what was mentioned. Veteta's enjoyment with a big challenge. Vegeta even said "you understand us well". It's just that Vegeta acting that way triggered by Goku wasn't mentioned anywhere, or shed light onto. You're adding that up.

Well it still feels you don't understand exactly what is being discussed here. I've said before that his obsession was still a thing during the Namek arc, but it was dialed up by 10 when Goku was shown to be a SSJ. 

I know what's being argued. You are acting like Goku's first acquiring of SSJ has changed Vegeta to a point that now he's throwing cautiousness into the wind all to prove a point. Seems like your opinion. When has Vegeta ever mentioned that Goku obtaining it first has set him off badly? In fact, he mentioned Goku saving him when throwing a fit and explaining his desire to fight him in the Boo arc. Goku achieving SSJ first was never mentioned.

Vegeta achieved it and surpassed Goku... then he went into the RoSaT and widened the gap to a new level... yet Goku achieving it first has changed Vegeta to a point he'd be willing to take risks even though Goku obtaining it first was never mentioned as a fact that took their rivalry to a new level or as a thing that was bothering him like the fact he was saved. So yeah, that sounds BS.

When I said Goku being a SSJ sparked something in Vegeta, I was referring to the level of power that he displayed, not the form. Did you not see me mention Trunks when making my post to Keedounan? That's why I say at best you just glanced over my arguments. Vegeta is someone who does not like to be surpassed, especially not by a lower-class warrior. That is something you cannot deny unless you wanna ignore the broader picture here.

In the Cell arc, Vegeta doesn't have to sneak around anymore. He's free from all restraints to prove he's the strongest warrior in the universe. Yes, letting Cell achieve his final form was incredibly foolish. But at this point, he's the strongest among the Dragon Team and has surpassed the Super Saiyan wall. That kind of power can get anyone over their head. Besides the fact that he completely dominated Cell's 2nd form, he genuinely believed the boost in power Cell would gain wouldn't be enough to overcome him.

Vegeta for the better part of the Namek arc was a twerp compared to Freeza, so he's basically forced to think strategically. After he got his last Zenkai he suddenly thought in his mind that he could defeat Freeza, with a smug attitude to go along with it. This type of trait is probably something that harbored within him for years and that was just waiting to be brought out, especially considering the amount of humiliation he was put under working for the emperor.

These characters are multi-layered people!

 

[Let's Go Fearless!]

Also people seem to forget that Vegeta believed on SSjin hype and that no one can surpass that power. It makes sense why he was so arrogant and stubborn compared to his Namek counterpart who was just relying on zenkai boost.

 

[Kyo]

Always had more of an issue with Boo arc Vegeta personally.

 

[Pocket-Gog~]

Always had more of an issue with Boo arc Vegeta personally.

Reasons why?

 

[Let's Go Fearless!]

Always had more of an issue with Boo arc Vegeta personally.

Reasons why?

Probably because of Vegeta's midlife crisis.

 

[ahill1]

When I said Goku being a SSJ sparked something in Vegeta, I was referring to the level of power that he displayed, not the form. Did you not see me mention Trunks when making my post to Keedounan?

And how that's relevant to Vegeta's chanbe in demeanor exactly? Vegeta has also seen Goku acquiring a new level of power in the Freeza arc, post his gravity training. He was so shocked in the inside that he thought he was a SSJ. Granted that he surpassed that, but he then surpassed Goku in the Cell arc. Up to the point he demonstrated such arrogancd with Cell, he had never been surpassed by Goku in that arc alone -- only in the Trunks arc. So yeah, your point seems really weak here. You're basically saying that Goku demonstrating a level layers above Vegeta has shocked him to a point that he's now wishing to take on bigger challenge all to prove himself as superior -- never shown.

In the Cell arc, Vegeta doesn't have to sneak around anymore. He's free from all restraints to prove he's the strongest warrior in the universe. Yes, letting Cell achieve his final form was incredibly foolish. But at this point, he's the strongest among the Dragon Team and has surpassed the Super Saiyan wall. That kind of power can get anyone over their head. Besides the fact that he completely dominated Cell's 2nd form, he genuinely believed the boost in power Cell would gain wouldn't be enough to overcome him.

He was also free from all restraints in the Saiyajin arc, lile Keedounan mentioned. Still thought it was better to go for the pragmatic route and kill everyone before Goku got there. He wasn't willing to take chances.

Vegeta for the better part of the Namek arc was a twerp compared to Freeza, so he's basically forced to think strategically. After he got his last Zenkai he suddenly thought in his mind that he could defeat Freeza, with a smug attitude to go along with it.

Wrong. He was never the smug Vegeta after getting his last Zenkai. He is sweatting as soon as he senses Freeza's power, is sweatting when seeing following Freeza's speed and answers Piccolo's "can you take Freeza" with a not so assuring expression. He's trying to convince himself the SSJ is enough to beat Freeza.

Characters are multi-layered, I haven't disputed that, but your reasoning for Vegeta's change of nature is shaky at best. "Vegeta is someone who does not like to be surpassed" -- never said that. You're making up a scenarion in which Vegeta witnessing a power of SSJ's nature has changed him to a point he plays differently, which isn't shown at all. Again, hjs pleasure in fighting strong opponents is brough up when Cell was aiming for perfection. He never saw there an opportunity to prove himself over Goku.

 

[Kyo]

Always had more of an issue with Boo arc Vegeta personally.

Reasons why?

His arc at the beginning is basically just a rehash of before

 

[Future Warrior]

And how that's relevant to Vegeta's chanbe in demeanor exactly? Vegeta has also seen Goku acquiring a new level of power in the Freeza arc, post his gravity training. He was so shocked in the inside that he thought he was a SSJ. Granted that he surpassed that, but he then surpassed Goku in the Cell arc. Up to the point he demonstrated such arrogancd with Cell, he had never been surpassed by Goku in that arc alone -- only in the Trunks arc. So yeah, your point seems really weak here.

I honestly don't have the patience to go over points that I've already addressed in the previous page, so I'll just move on.

You're basically saying that Goku demonstrating a level layers above Vegeta has shocked him to a point that he's now wishing to take on bigger challenge all to prove himself as superior -- never shown.

And how do you feel this could have been shown any better? Do you want the dialogue outright confirming it? There is a thing called subtext.

He was also free from all restraints in the Saiyajin arc, lile Keedounan mentioned. Still thought it was better to go for the pragmatic route and kill everyone before Goku got there. He wasn't willing to take chances.

Yes, he was generally more pragmatic in the Saiyan arc. At this point his pride wasn't as on the line because no one was there to challenge his power, so he's willing to take precautions. I think you treat these characters way too robotic and fail to consider that characters change through life experiences.

Wrong. He was never the smug Vegeta after getting his last Zenkai. He is sweatting as soon as he senses Freeza's power, is sweatting when seeing following Freeza's speed and answers Piccolo's "can you take Freeza" with a not so assuring expression. He's trying to convince himself the SSJ is enough to beat Freeza.

You're acting like Vegeta was too dense in the Cell arc to know when he was outclassed, when that was clearly not the case when he was fighting Perfect Cell. He also avoided a fight with #20 because he knew he didn't have the energy to take him on. He's taking more risks at the thought of a strong opponent, but he doesn't delude himself when that opponent ends up completely overwhelming him.

Now that you mention it, it's also strange that you would bring up Vegeta not taking the risk of letting Freeza reach his final form previously even though at that point he was way weaker than even 2nd form, so it's fair to say he didn't want to take chances against Freeza in a form leagues above even that. If he was able to get his zenkai boost before the time that Freeza was in the process of turning into his 4th form, I don't think it's a stretch to say he would have let Freeza transform anyway just for the sake of proving his dominance.

And finally, I find it suspicious that you didn't answer me when I asked what other examples of Vegeta you thought was out of character in the Cell arc. You're argument is pretty shaky if you're hinging on the basis of Vegeta being mischaracterized using one instance of his recklessness out of an entire arc.

 

[ahill1]

I honestly don't have the patience to go over points that I've already addressed in the previous page, so I'll just move on.

... Ok. That's the bulky of your argument regarding Vegeta's change of demeanor. It seems Vegeta's change of actions isn't as well backed up as you thought.

And how do you feel this could have been shown any better? Do you want the dialogue outright confirming it? There is a thing called subtext.

Where was this implicitly shown in the story, exactly? Ohh it never was, it was just something FW came up with to justify an obvious change in demeanor and when confronted with real lines on the matter expressing the reasoning behind Vegeta's actions, he hides behind unsupported claims like "this doesn't prove anything". So yeah, there's nothing clearly shown here... Just some shaky interpretation you've come up with to justify a "natural" character progression.

Yes, he was generally more pragmatic in the Saiyan arc. At this point his pride wasn't as on the line because no one was there to challenge his power, so he's willing to take precautions. I think you treat these characters way too robotic and fail to consider that characters change through life experiences.

There's no treating characters way too robotic. When was Vegeta's rivalry with Goku brought up as a relevant point in his course of Actions against Cell? It wasn't? So admit you just made that up.

You're acting like Vegeta was too dense in the Cell arc to know when he was outclassed, when that was clearly not the case when he was fighting Perfect Cell. He also avoided a fight with #20 because he knew he didn't have the energy to take him on. He's taking more risks at the thought of a strong opponent, but he doesn't delude himself when that opponent ends up completely overwhelming him.

I didn't say he deluded himself into thinking he's able to beat an opponent he sensed as > him. I addressed your comment that Vegeta was smug confident against final form Freeza.

Now that you mention it, it's also strange that you would bring up Vegeta not taking the risk of letting Freeza reach his final form previously even though at that point he was way weaker than even 2nd form, so it's fair to say he didn't want to take chances against Freeza in a form leagues above even that. If he was able to get his zenkai boost before the time that Freeza was in the process of turning into his 4th form, I don't think it's a stretch to say he would have let Freeza transform anyway just for the sake of proving his dominance.

It shows he was pragmatic with the whole thing, not wanting to take any risks. He was way behind 2nd form Freeza, but he was confident that one more Zenkai would thrust him into the SSJ. He was confident he'd be a good deal above 3rd form Freeza, which he ended up being. So the fact that he was way behind Freeza doesn't discredit his cautiousness in wishing to enact the plan before Freeza could transform.

And finally, I find it suspicious that you didn't answer me when I asked what other examples of Vegeta you thought was out of character in the Cell arc. You're argument is pretty shaky if you're hinging on the basis of Vegeta being mischaracterized using one instance of his recklessness out of an entire arc.

That's the main example of his recklessness, yeah. But the fact that it was one example doesn't diminish its importance, as it played a huge factor in the continuity of the arc. Similarly, Gohan's demeanor in the CGs is enough to damage his character's consistency in the arc... It wasn't present through the whole arc, but it still sticks out enough to be pointed out. Vegeta even stated they should allow Cell to absorb the androids so they would have less enemies to fight against... Clearly not the pragmatic Vegeta. And that came from a Vegeta who had already been as surpassed as the one in the Freeza arc. So there's your other example.

 

[Future Warrior]

... Ok. That's the bulky of your argument regarding Vegeta's change of demeanor. It seems Vegeta's change of actions isn't as well backed up as you thought.

Nah. I already made my argument against these claims in the previous page. It's not my issue that you didn't consider everything that I had to say on the matter.

Where was this implicitly shown in the story, exactly? Ohh it never was, it was just something FW came up with to justify an obvious change in demeanor and when confronted with real lines on the matter expressing the reasoning behind Vegeta's actions, he hides behind unsupported claims like "this doesn't prove anything". So yeah, there's nothing clearly shown here... Just some shaky interpretation you've come up with to justify a "natural" character progression.

If the manga didn't make it abundantly clear on the intentions of Vegeta during the Cell arc, then the anime did (which I provided a link to Keedounan for evidence, but I'm guessing you didn't see that either?)

There's no treating characters way too robotic. When was Vegeta's rivalry with Goku brought up as a relevant point in his course of Actions against Cell? It wasn't? So admit you just made that up.

So you basically admitted that the story is required to spell everything out for the reader, throwing ''show don't tell'' out the window?

Also, I never said that what Cell brought up had remotely no basis to Vegeta's motivations. That was just you twisting my words.

It shows he was pragmatic with the whole thing, not wanting to take any risks. He was way behind 2nd form Freeza, but he was confident that one more Zenkai would thrust him into the SSJ. He was confident he'd be a good deal above 3rd form Freeza, which he ended up being. So the fact that he was way behind Freeza doesn't discredit his cautiousness in wishing to enact the plan before Freeza could transform.

He had no idea how strong he would become after the Zenkai boost so it was gonna be a gamble anyway. I don't see how you think this goes against Vegeta's Cell arc personality. Even if you're right about this, It's not like I'm arguing against Vegeta not changing after the Namek arc.

That's the main example of his recklessness, yeah. But the fact that it was one example doesn't diminish its importance, as it played a huge factor in the continuity of the arc. Similarly, Gohan's demeanor in the CGs is enough to damage his character's consistency in the arc... It wasn't present through the whole arc, but it still sticks out enough to be pointed out. Vegeta even stated they should allow Cell to absorb the androids so they would have less enemies to fight against... Clearly not the pragmatic Vegeta. And that came from a Vegeta who had already been as surpassed as the one in the Freeza arc. So there's your other example.

People who have the same pov as you typically bring up examples of his personality during the time when Cell wasn't revealed yet.

As for Vegeta saying to let Cell absorb #18/#17, he was already thinking about the idea of transcending Super Saiyan. So yeah, not the best example.

 

[ahill1]

Nah. I already made my argument against these claims in the previous page. It's not my issue that you didn't consider everything that I had to say on the matter.

You haven't, really. All you have stated is that Goku achieving the SSJ before Vegeta changed the way he approached things, without any evidence for it. Vegeta didn't even mention that as a predicament for him in the Boo arc when reiterating how that fight meant a lot for him. So yeah, you have shown nothing.

If the manga didn't make it abundantly clear on the intentions of Vegeta during the Cell arc, then the anime did (which I provided a link to Keedounan for evidence, but I'm guessing you didn't see that either?)

It's filler, so leave it where it belongs. It shows your evidence is weak, really. You aren't secure with the manga (which is what I base my analysis on), label it as abundantly clear without poning up evidences and ground yourself in the anime, given how your position isn't well grounded.

So you basically admitted that the story is required to spell everything out for the reader, throwing ''show don't tell'' out the window?

No, I'm saying that the story has to shown shades of evidence for your position so you can confidently lean on it. You have shown nothing, so please don't post this "has to spell everything" nonsense. That's basically a smokescreen to hide behind when you know you haven't much.

Also, I never said that what Cell brought up had remotely no basis to Vegeta's motivations. That was just you twisting my words.

I didn't say that. What I said is that the rivalry with Goku was the only thing shed light onto by Cell. So yeah, your reason sounds like made up.

He had no idea how strong he would become after the Zenkai boost so it was gonna be a gamble anyway. I don't see how you think this goes against Vegeta's Cell arc personality. Even if you're right about this, It's not like I'm arguing against Vegeta not changing after the Namek arc.

He stated that with such Zenkai he'd attain the SSJ. He looked at his powers post getting healed and that seemed to compliment his expectations. He was sure that with 3rd form Freeza he'd have this, but decided to play it safe by having him healed before Freeza transformed. So when knowing that it'd be enough to deal with 3rd form Freeza but deciding it had to be done before Freeza transforms shows his cautiousness when operating.

As for Vegeta saying to let Cell absorb #18/#17, he was already thinking about the idea of transcending Super Saiyan. So yeah, not the best example.

As he was thinking in obtaining the SSJ after getting healed in the Freeza arc. Yet he wanted it done before Freeza transformed. So yeah, the example works.

 

[Future Warrior]

Maybe I wasn't clear when I was giving my thoughts, but I'm not saying that Vegeta was constantly thinking about his rivalry everytime he made a reckless decision. I think it was a precedent to the way he's been acting because his pride was thrown in the trash once Goku showed a level of power he couldn't reach. Once he finally achieved SSJ and further evolution, in his eyes it was like reclaiming a throne that was rightfully his which went to his head. That's where the dialed up ego comes into play with all those reckless decisions that he made during that arc.

You could say that the prospect of a challenge against Cell was the only thing concerning Vegeta, but I think it's clear that his ego was also doing the talking.

 

[ahill1]

Maybe I wasn't clear when I was giving my thoughts, but I'm not saying that Vegeta was constantly thinking about his rivalry everytime he made a reckless decision. I think it was a precedent to the way he's been acting because his pride was thrown in the trash once Goku showed a level of power he couldn't reach. Once he finally achieved SSJ and further evolution, in his eyes it was like reclaiming a throne that was rightfully his which went to his head. That's where the dialed up ego comes into play with all those reckless decisions that he made during that arc.

You could say that the prospect of a challenge against Cell was the only thing concerning Vegeta, but I think it's clear that his ego was also doing the talking.

Ok. When Vegeta proposed to let Cell absorb the androids, he had just voiced his displeasure at them outdoing them SSJs, even including Goku saying "doesn't that annoy you, Kakarrot?". Do you think his ego boosted by the rivalry was at play there? I Don't really see it. Maybe you could say his hurt ego at being surpassed was influencing that reckless decision, dunno.

 

[Future Warrior]

Maybe I wasn't clear when I was giving my thoughts, but I'm not saying that Vegeta was constantly thinking about his rivalry everytime he made a reckless decision. I think it was a precedent to the way he's been acting because his pride was thrown in the trash once Goku showed a level of power he couldn't reach. Once he finally achieved SSJ and further evolution, in his eyes it was like reclaiming a throne that was rightfully his which went to his head. That's where the dialed up ego comes into play with all those reckless decisions that he made during that arc.

You could say that the prospect of a challenge against Cell was the only thing concerning Vegeta, but I think it's clear that his ego was also doing the talking.

Ok. When Vegeta proposed to let Cell absorb the androids, he had just voiced his displeasure at them outdoing them SSJs, even including Goku saying "doesn't that annoy you, Kakarrot?". Do you think his ego boosted by the rivalry was at play there? I Don't really see it. Maybe you could say his hurt ego at being surpassed was influencing that reckless decision, dunno.

He was definitely angry when making that proposition. Soon after the act of Piccolo telling him he was powerless against the androids was enough to get his blood boiling. Although, he immediately claimed that he was gonna surpass SSJ, so it's possible he was betting on that.

 

[Captain Cadaver]

I won't get in the way of ahill and Future Warrior's debate, at least not for now, though I'll offer my thoughts on the matter.

For the most part, I'd side with Keedounan and ahill. There is some level in which I can agree with the opposite viewpoint in that it's only after Freeza's death (both assumed and actual) that Vegeta is given the full opportunity to live as his own individual and live how he wants, with traits that came from his royal lineage and some influence of Freeza's personality manifesting themselves within his actions. Still, that doesn't justify his complete change in approach to battle as Keedounan went into or how deluded he became by Super Saiyan's hype when, by all accounts, he should know it to be far from invincible. Not just that, but his attitude to Goku spits in the face of his death scene on Namek. 'Member when Vegeta used his dying breaths to declare Goku a Super Saiyan and entrust the pride of the Saiyan race with him? Apparently Vegeta didn't.

And Namek arc vegeta didn't believe he was turning into an invincible Super Saiyan the whole latter half of the arc?

Back then, he didn't have a solid grasp on what a Super Saiyan actually was and was going entirely on what was told in legendary accounts. In the Cell Arc, it's made apparent to him of the physical and Ki traits of one as well as proof by one that they weren't some invincible warrior.

That let Freeza transform because he was positive that he wouldn't get that much stronger?

That was far from the only reason Vegeta let Freeza transform. With Zarbon as his only benchmark for what to expect, there's no reason Vegeta would assume Freeza couldn't transform instantly. That said, what use would there be in having himself, Gohan and Kuririn wear themselves out fighting 1st form Freeza only for him to transform instantly and make their slim chance of winning even slimmer?
The Freeza case is far different than with Cell, in which he had a complete grasp of Cell's current limitations and still did nothing to prevent Cell getting stronger.

That got super enraged the entire fight in the arc previously that a simple low class saiyan like goku had surpassed him?

Back when the idea of a low-class Saiyan or any other Saiyan, or anyone outside of Freeza's elite troops for that matter, coming close to or surpassing his level was something he'd never before witnessed or imagined. Compare this to in the Cell Arc, where that 18k figure is a joke when it comes to power, he's met many fighters capable of rivalling or surpassing him and, as I mentioned prior, respected Goku's power enough to entrust the vengeance of the Saiyan race and their pride with him.
The two situations are only comparable when removing context to get rid of what development and growth the events on Namek gave Vegeta.

Always had more of an issue with Boo arc Vegeta personally.

I'd agree somewhat to that. I'd say he dropped the ball harder when it came to the reason he had for going Majin being more petty than letting Cell gain his Perfect form, though I'd say the wiggle room he had to work with in terms of estimations for what to expect from Perfect Cell's imminence as opposed to the possibility of Boo's revival were far more of a risk. As he later alluded to with his talk about Kaioshin not living up to the hype and how strong he and Goku had become as well as his mention of Dabura not being some major threat prior despite his status, there was still a fair possibility of Boo not measuring up to what was at that point the peak of power. Meanwhile, 2nd form Cell was still capable of making Vegeta's lip bleed, so estimating he'd be able to take Perfect Cell with how little he had to go on in what to expect was way more of a gamble.
Also, whilst it could've used more time, the catharsis to Vegeta's character arc was at least far less rushed than what the end of the Cell Arc did for him.