Cell Game-Buu Saga

[p123]

Super Saiyan 2 Gohan (Enraged) 250
Super Perfect Cell 240
Super Saiyan 2 Gohan 200
Perfect Cell 150
Super Saiyan Gohan 100
Perfect Cell (Vs Gohan) 100



Fat Buu (Initial) 300
Super Saiyan 2 Goku/Majin Vegeta 275
Super Saiyan 2 Vegeta 225
Super Saiyan 2 Gohan 175
Super Saiyan Goku/Majin Vegeta 137.5
Super Saiyan Vegeta 112.5
Super Saiyan Gohan 87.5




Super Saiyan 3 Goku 550
Majin Buu (Full Power) 450
Majin Buu (Powered Up) 325
Super Saiyan 2 Majin Vegeta 275




Super Saiyan Vegetto 12,500
Buuhan 7,500
Buutenks 6,200
Ultimate Gohan 4,500
Super Saiyan 3 Gotenks 3,200
Super Buu 3,000
Super Saiyan 2 Gotenks 1,600
Super Saiyan Gotenks (Post Rosat) 800
Super Saiyan Gotenks (Pre Rosat) 600
Super Saiyan 3 Goku 550

 

[withheldforprivacy]

What about Base Gotenks post>SSJ Gotenks pre?

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

And even ignoring Base Post > SSJ Pre Piccolo still said it was a huge power up.

 

[p123]

Yea I'm retconning that. Gotenks shouldn't be getting huge power ups in 6 days. He's already what we consider a Mastered Super Saiyan. After hitting the level of a MSSJ, I don't believe massive gains should be in order. What's more realistic is that Gotenks is already so powerful that he can unlock new forms by putting his mind to it. That's what I prefer.

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

That's not how it works man. What's next? Freeza > Android Arc Piccolo because you think it's not possible for Piccolo to get that strong in 3 years?

 

[p123]

I was thinking of that. That might be worth looking into. We have a good opportunity to right some wrongs. And that was always a wrong, but there are many issues like that. I wonder where it ends?

What do you think would be a more common sense approach to Piccolo's power in the Androids Saga?

I think we can kill two birds with one stone here. Check this out.

Drastically reduce Piccolo's Androids power.
This makes sense logically, but drastically reduces Kami's boost. Which is problematic.

Drastically reduce Piccolo's power gained on Kaio's planet.
Problem solved. Also, Piccolo's gains on the planet were too extreme as well.

Grand Elder speaks about a merge of Kami meaning that the Nameless Namek could have beaten Vegeta, which is insane if its a 2x boost. This actually fixes a lot of Piccolo's issues.

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

The point isn't about how it fits with logic, it's about how it fits on the story.

Piccolo/Gotenks powering up so much is what's implied, doesn't matter if we like it or not.

And Guru actually says Piccolo might have survived, what is quite different, specially when Piccolo died a second before Goku arrived.

 

[p123]

That's one way to look at it. I'm being creative here though. Much how people like to go back in time and recreate WWE storylines, what could have beens and so on, is what I'm doing here. Primarily aimed at the hardcore enthusiasts.

 

[withheldforprivacy]

Yea I'm retconning that. Gotenks shouldn't be getting huge power ups in 6 days. He's already what we consider a Mastered Super Saiyan. After hitting the level of a MSSJ, I don't believe massive gains should be in order. What's more realistic is that Gotenks is already so powerful that he can unlock new forms by putting his mind to it. That's what I prefer.

Gotenks got a higher fusion multiplier after ROSAT training. Have you been living under a rock?

 

[p123]

Then explain Gogeta's superiority over Gotenks?

 

[withheldforprivacy]

Then explain Gogeta's superiority over Gotenks?

Because Goku/Vegeta are stronger than Trunks/Goten.

 

[p123]

Are the adults that much stronger that they can overtake the added multiplier the kids get? Show me numbers.

 

[withheldforprivacy]

Are the adults that much stronger that they can overtake the added multiplier the kids get? Show me numbers.

It's been a long time since i ditched fusion formulas/multipliers. As i've written in the past, when two fighters
fuse is like when a couple has a child; you can never be sure what you'll get. I just accepted the kids producing
a stronger fusion in ROSAT, because that's what Piccolo had implied (little individual gains for the kids would
result into great gains for Gotenks), and SSJ Gogeta being stronger than SSJ3 Gotenks.

 

[p123]

You were wrong and continue to be wrong though. Piccolo and Goku both make concrete predictions about the kids power. Your thoughts are irrelevant.

 

[withheldforprivacy]

You were wrong and continue to be wrong though. Piccolo and Goku both make concrete predictions about the kids power. Your thoughts are irrelevant.

Goku and Piccolo could only predict that Gotenks would be stronger than Buu, based on approximate estimations.

 

[p123]

Yep. They made predictions that came true. They know what they are talking about. Clearly you don't.

 

[ahill1]

That's the problem though, if we adhere to base post > SSJ pre (which is definitely suggested), then Gotenks would have to have developed on its own... Goku sees Goten and Trunks and he is still hoping for a miracle, clearly not believing they stand a chance against Super Boo... yet when they fuse he is already pretty excited with their power, now believing they got a power up to the point they might stand a chance, which all in all suggests the kids themselves didn't power up to a point of elevating Piccolo's hope, yet Gotenks did.

And yet Gogeta is clearly still a few steps above Gotenks post RoSaT, whom is already benefiting from this heightened multiplier... which would also suggest Gogeta has already this, let's say, 'perfect' multiplier without having training or anything.

In my headcanon, Gogeta benefits from such multiplier due to Goku already knowing about fusion. It doesn't make much sense, but it's also suggested Gogeta could turn into a SSJ after fusing, which Gotenks had to train to achieve, right? So I think Gogeta benefiting from this [post Rosat] multiplier also makes sense, as if a fusion with Goku would be special due to himself.

But it's also worth noting that Piccolo's opinion on Gotenks' strength once he was formed -- pre Rosat -- seems to match Goku's predictions, considering he stated Gotenks was really incredible and just wished to have a glance on his speed -- his power wasn't a problem. The segment is kinda poorly thought out on this aspect, but that's my take on it.

 

[p123]

Too much conjecture. Goku is happy because of Super Saiyan 3. He mentions nothing of them powering up. If anything, Goku shows us that Gotenks power hasn't changed much besides his transformations, which is what makes sense.

 

[ahill1]

So you are saying Gotenks didn't power up notably while on the RoSaT?

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

Saying Gotenks barely powered up because Goku didn't mention it is weak shit man. Piccolo and Trunks already pointed it out themselves, Goku pointing out again just makes the story sound repetitive.

Not to mention isn't a walking calculator. Last time he sensed Gotenks he was a Super Saiyan, now he's sensing him as a Super Saiyan 3. He can't really tell how much Gotenks improved because he's seeing Gotenks using another transformation.