Collection of all statements about Hit improving his TS technique and power

[Natasha Romanoff]

This thread will be updating considering that it doesn't left to write all of the statements in just one thread.

DBS Episode 39:

Hit stating he can't increase his power with transformations which only left him one way to do:

Spoiler

Hit talks about how methodic he was to improve his TS:

Spoiler

Hit maximizes the TS by changing his pose:

Spoiler

Goku recognizes how Hit improved his power:

Spoiler

Vegeta acknowledges that Hit can do the improvement better than saiyans:

Spoiler

Hit increases his TS to 0.5 seconds:

Spoiler

Krillin states that Hit is better than Goku at improving:

Spoiler

"As you rise even higher by neccesity, so will I":

Spoiler

The narrator states that Hit continue to enhance his own power:

Spoiler

 

[Natasha Romanoff]

DBS Episode 40:
Hit explains how he dodged Goku's attack:

Spoiler

Beerus observes how Hit change his pose to improve his power:

Spoiler

Hit blows Kaioken Goku out of the water by using his improved TS:

Spoiler

 

[Natasha Romanoff]

DBS Episode 104:
Toppo realizes how Hit is beginning to adapt to Dyspo's speed:

Spoiler

Hit outmanouvers Dyspo:

Spoiler

Hit left Dyspo without elections:

Spoiler

Goku states that Hit has improved again:

Spoiler

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

But his power is the timeskip, isn’t it? The first two scans he makes it very clear he’s improving timeskip, not raw power.

 

[Natasha Romanoff]

But his power is the timeskip, isn’t it? The first two scans he makes it very clear he’s improving timeskip, not raw power.

Well if he didn't improve his power he'd be tanked by Goku, Vegeta initially thought his punches are his weak point, while afterwards he is able to damage Goku as recognized by himself.

In other translations, it is said that while he gets stronger (Hit) Kaioken Goku will also reach greater heights.

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

Well if he didn't improve his power he'd be tanked by Goku, Vegeta initially thought his punches are his weak point, while afterwards he is able to damage Goku as recognized by himself.

In other translations, it is said that while he gets stronger (Hit) Kaioken Goku will also reach greater heights.

Not really, because Goku is frozen. He can't defend himself. Isn't it also said Hit's attacks target weak points? At least that's the impression I got from his attacks since he's an assassin.

The very first line already settles it for me. Piccolo says Hit is doing it "without any boost to his power". Timeskip is making him too fast for SSJB Goku to predict, to Goku needs Kaio-Ken's heightened speed to keep up.

 

[Natasha Romanoff]

Not really, because Goku is frozen. He can't defend himself. Isn't it also said Hit's attacks target weak points? At least that's the impression I got from his attacks since he's an assassin.

What difference does it exist in between being frozen and being unmobile? I mean we have seen how characters doesn't defend themselves or keep in the same position and still tank other characters much weaker than them.

Why didn't Hit got oneshotted if he's that much weaker than whoever he faces? Strength, speed, resilence and durability, all of them relates to power.

The very first line already settles it for me. Piccolo says Hit is doing it "without any boost to his power". Timeskip is making him too fast for SSJB Goku to predict, to Goku needs Kaio-Ken's heightened speed to keep up.

Which means that Goku doesn't have enough speed reaction towards Hit, as speed is one attribute to power, means that Hit's power has gone greater as well.

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

What difference does it exist in between being frozen and being unmobile? I mean we have seen how characters doesn't defend themselves or keep in the same position and still tank other characters much weaker than them.

Why didn't Hit got oneshotted if he's that much weaker than whoever he faces? Strength, speed, resilence and durability, all of them relates to power.

The difference is that being frozen essentially makes you off guard, because you're not prepared for the attack. It's basically the same logic that explained why Sorbet could beat Goku, but Vegeta couldn't do anything to 2nd form Freeza here.

Spoiler

One shotting isn't quite consistent (Dyspo and Kunshi also take several attacks from Hit), but if you look at the fight you can see Hit is clearly the weaker one against Goku and Jiren. Goku always lands more blows, and I think Hit even avoids being touched by Jiren most of the fight.

Which means that Goku doesn't have enough speed reaction towards Hit, as speed is one attribute to power, means that Hit's power has gone greater as well.

No? He just needs more speed to keep up with Hit, the power was irrelevant since Goku was already stronger than Hit. Goku started winning when he started predicting Hit's attacks, and Hit's solution was to skip further so Goku couldn't predict him anymore, and Goku countered that by getting too fast for Hit to predict. I know the manga is a whole different thing, but they joke about out-predicting each other's predictions there and it's the same applies here. It's probably what Toriyama had in his draft.

Goku lands like 10 blows at once when Hit can't even land one:

Spoiler

How does it make any sense for Hit to be getting stronger after the characters went out of their way to say he wasn't getting stronger? It's more like the timeskip gives the illusion of making him stronger. It's just a fancy version of Gurd's time freeze.

 

[Natasha Romanoff]

The difference is that being frozen essentially makes you off guard, because you're not prepared for the attack. It's basically the same logic that explained why Sorbet could beat Goku, but Vegeta couldn't do anything to 2nd form Freeza here.

Spoiler

One shotting isn't quite consistent (Dyspo and Kunshi also take several attacks from Hit), but if you look at the fight you can see Hit is clearly the weaker one against Goku and Jiren. Goku always lands more blows, and I think Hit even avoids being touched by Jiren most of the fight.

Goku's ki already provide him attributes such as strength, speed and durability. When someone is frozen and stronger can basically either broke the TS (like Jiren) or withstand many blows without getting down which Goku could stand up on his feet and then use Kaioken to bring him a punch in the face.

The difference is that Goku didn't know about Sorbet coming and he was in base and without intention to attack, Freeza pretty much knows where everyone already was. Goku was in attack mode and not in a relaxed state the whole time he fought Hit.

Kunshi only received one blow from Hit and was damaged, then the second hit throw him out of the ring. Hit with many blows was able for Dyspo to not active the technique he used with Freeza and was clearly damaged with the 1st blow which pushed him back on top of Hit being restricted to kill.

Jiren was a someone whom his capabilities far exceed that of Hit, Goku just surpassed Hit with Kaioken at the end, Doesn't change the fact that Hit was able to withstand Jiren's glare far better than Kaioken x20 Goku and has the speed to react and block hits coming from him, as well as withstand it.

Spoiler

No? He just needs more speed to keep up with Hit, the power was irrelevant since Goku was already stronger than Hit. Goku started winning when he started predicting Hit's attacks, and Hit's solution was to skip further so Goku couldn't predict him anymore, and Goku countered that by getting too fast for Hit to predict. I know the manga is a whole different thing, but they joke about out-predicting each other's predictions there and it's the same applies here. It's probably what Toriyama had in his draft.

So Goku's speed is inferior to Hit? That's what is consistently shown, Goku and Hit were either equals (Krillin told that Hit and Goku were fighting evenly) while Vegeta says that Hit's blows aren't that tough, Goku's power still influences him as as he is expecting to receive hits coming from Hit so he can know what to predict afterwards, which was a concept that was proven wrong, he wasn't in relaxed mode, but in defense mode.

Goku lands like 10 blows at once when Hit can't even land one:

Spoiler

At that point, Goku was stronger than Hit, so he was also faster, interesting to see how Hit is able to withstand that many blows from Goku whom had the intention to immediately end the fight (in the Kaioken Kamehameha scene he say that Blue wouldn't last long using Kaioken), as well as to react to that many hits. If he was fodder material would have being put down, Tired Golden Freeza vs SSjB Vegeta or SSJ2 Gohan vs FP Perfect Cell would be an accurate example.

How does it make any sense for Hit to be getting stronger after the characters went out of their way to say he wasn't getting stronger? It's more like the timeskip gives the illusion of making him stronger. It's just a fancy version of Gurd's time freeze.

All of these implies that Hit's attributes such as speed or durability also goes rendered to every improvement Hit make, strength not being the exception. Can't you see that?

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

The difference is that Goku didn't know about Sorbet coming and he was in base and without intention to attack, Freeza pretty much knows where everyone already was. Goku was in attack mode and not in a relaxed state the whole time he fought Hit.

And Goku doesn't know when or how Hit is going to attack him. That's basically the whole reason Vegeta lost. Goku isn't totally off guard, which is why he's not being one shot again, but he still can't do anything.

Kunshi only received one blow from Hit and was damaged, then the second hit throw him out of the ring. Hit with many blows was able for Dyspo to not active the technique he used with Freeza and was clearly damaged with the 1st blow which pushed him back on top of Hit being restricted to kill.

Jiren was a someone whom his capabilities far exceed that of Hit, Goku just surpassed Hit with Kaioken at the end, Doesn't change the fact that Hit was able to withstand Jiren's glare far better than Kaioken x20 Goku and has the speed to react and block hits coming from him, as well as withstand it.

Kunshi jumped on the edge of the arena, Hit beating him there isn't impressive at all. Kunshi and Dyspo both took hits from characters well beyond their level: Hit, SSJG/B Goku, even Golden Freeza later for Dyspo.

Hit was totally done after receiving the glare. After that, Hit just did that one blast to finish him. Goku took the glare more than once and kept fighting.

In fact, Hit couldn't do anything to Jiren the whole fight. He relies on timeskip and similiar powers the whole fight and gets stomped whenever Jiren gets his hands on him.

So Goku's speed is inferior to Hit? That's what is consistently shown, Goku and Hit were either equals (Krillin told that Hit and Goku were fighting evenly) while Vegeta says that Hit's blows aren't that tough, Goku's power still influences him as as he is expecting to receive hits coming from Hit so he can know what to predict afterwards, which was a concept that was proven wrong, he wasn't in relaxed mode, but in defense mode.

No, it's that timeskip has the same effect as being faster since you can't see or react to his attacks unless you predict them. Goku can't expect anything if Hit already attacks before he can even think.

At that point, Goku was stronger than Hit, so he was also faster, interesting to see how Hit is able to withstand that many blows from Goku whom had the intention to immediately end the fight (in the Kaioken Kamehameha scene he say that Blue wouldn't last long using Kaioken), as well as to react to that many hits. If he was fodder material would have being put down, Tired Golden Freeza vs SSjB Vegeta or SSJ2 Gohan vs FP Perfect Cell would be an accurate example.

Goku only notices that Kamehameha won't last long after that gif. After the Kamehameha Goku punches him once before giving up and Hit can barely stand up.

Power gaps aren't very accurate in Super. This very fight starts with Goku holding his own without even transforming, and this becomes more common in the next sagas (Basically every fight in the FT Saga, Android 17's fights with ToP fodder, Jiren's fights in the 2nd half of the ToP, Goku fighting Broly in the movie...)

All of these implies that Hit's attributes such as speed or durability also goes rendered to every improvement Hit make, strength not being the exception. Can't you see that?

The scans you posted have several characters, including Hit himself, say he can't raise his power.

 

[Natasha Romanoff]

And Goku doesn't know when or how Hit is going to attack him. That's basically the whole reason Vegeta lost. Goku isn't totally off guard, which is why he's not being one shot again, but he still can't do anything.

Comparing Goku's situation with Vegeta doesn't make sense like at all. Vegeta didn't know at all anything about TS while Goku got informed by other people, showed to be able to counter it while also giving himself an idea fighting Vegeta and predicted it accurately.

When someone is stronger in stats than Hit, they can basically overpower all of his haxed abilities as nobody whose power has surpassed him has been shown to be affected by his hax. When Goku or Jiren surpassed his TS, there's nothing it can do to them.

Goku by himself said that Hit can no longer keep up with him even with TS once he used Kaioken. So, yes TS only affects people with lesser power.

Kunshi jumped on the edge of the arena, Hit beating him there isn't impressive at all. Kunshi and Dyspo both took hits from characters well beyond their level: Hit, SSJG/B Goku, even Golden Freeza later for Dyspo.

I can concede in the fact that Kunshi is weird to be a case, but we can justify it by Goku never acceding to the full exent of SSj Blue power on those episodes before Jiren. Dyspo only received one kick from SSjG Goku and was able to at least get up on his feet against Golden Freeza, regardless of everything, it's not like they're SSJ-SSJ3 levels of power to get oneshotted or lack the durability to receive these attacks. Dyspo in his base form is like a SSjG in terms of strength but his speed make him lethal.

Hit was totally done after receiving the glare. After that, Hit just did that one blast to finish him. Goku took the glare more than once and kept fighting.

He wasn't knocked even after receiving a direct blast fron Jiren it just managed to throw him out of the arena. Him receiving a combo like that is far more impressive than the likes of Golden Freeza or SSjB Vegeta who got oneshotted by one hit (Freeza) or one blast (Vegeta).

In fact, Hit couldn't do anything to Jiren the whole fight. He relies on timeskip and similiar powers the whole fight and gets stomped whenever Jiren gets his hands on him.

The fact that he has the speed reaction to block whenever he hits him and Jiren shows to be able to create impacts while punching him shows that all of his stats got better once he is adapting.

No, it's that timeskip has the same effect as being faster since you can't see or react to his attacks unless you predict them. Goku can't expect anything if Hit already attacks before he can even think.

And that can only be done with an superior speed as shown with Dyspo, or a superior power like Kaioken Goku or Jiren. As well as knowing in what consists his TS ability.

Goku only notices that Kamehameha won't last long after that gif. After the Kamehameha Goku punches him once before giving up and Hit can barely stand up.

That was after both of them reached their limits and Hit manage to dodge him. Goku consistently is shown to want to finish off Hit with whatever method it takes, the fact that this Hit can react to Kaioken x10 Goku's speed while he couldn't do it initially with regular Kaioken Goku's is also an example at how he got better reflexes which can only be done with an improvement in power (at this point he ain't relying on TS).

The scans you posted have several characters, including Hit himself, say he can't raise his power.

One thing is being unable to raise his power through power up in the usual way (screaming/transforming) and other being unable to power-up in any way or shape, which Hit encountered a way to counter that limitation and be able to improve his general stats. Maybe initially it was only focused in his TS, but then we got and shown how many improvements he can get by either speed, strength or durability.

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

When someone is stronger in stats than Hit, they can basically overpower all of his haxed abilities as nobody whose power has surpassed him has been shown to be affected by his hax. When Goku or Jiren surpassed his TS, there's nothing it can do to them.

Goku by himself said that Hit can no longer keep up with him even with TS once he used Kaioken. So, yes TS only affects people with lesser power.

That's manga-only. If they had not been aware of timeskip they would have fallen for it, so it's not just power. I think Jiren does break out of Hit's pocket dimension, but I don't remember Goku ever doing it in the tournament.

Well as Goku shows, he can blitz Hit using the Kaio-Ken.

He wasn't knocked even after receiving a direct blast fron Jiren it just managed to throw him out of the arena. Him receiving a combo like that is far more impressive than the likes of Golden Freeza or SSjB Vegeta who got oneshotted by one hit (Freeza) or one blast (Vegeta).

By knocked you mean KO'd, unconscious? ToP fighters are hardly ever KO'd because there's no need to. From the top of my head, I think only the U2 Yardrat was KO'd because Freeza made a point to torture him, and Freeza himself because GoD Toppo went overkill on him. Other fighters probably see it as a cruelty and waste of energy.

The fact that he has the speed reaction to block whenever he hits him and Jiren shows to be able to create impacts while punching him shows that all of his stats got better once he is adapting.

Like how Base Goku has the same speed reaction to block SSJ2 Caulifla?

That was after both of them reached their limits and Hit manage to dodge him. Goku consistently is shown to want to finish off Hit with whatever method it takes, the fact that this Hit can react to Kaioken x10 Goku's speed while he couldn't do it initially with regular Kaioken Goku's is also an example at how he got better reflexes which can only be done with an improvement in power (at this point he ain't relying on TS).

I agree that he got better reflexes, but I also think that's a consequence of his timeskip.

One thing is being unable to raise his power through power up in the usual way (screaming/transforming) and other being unable to power-up in any way or shape, which Hit encountered a way to counter that limitation and be able to improve his general stats. Maybe initially it was only focused in his TS, but then we got and shown how many improvements he can get by either speed, strength or durability.

But Hit does scream and flare his aura when he improves his timeskip. He's copying the method but for a different kind of power up.

I can see Hit's power improving if it was only towards the end. Before Goku started using Kaio-Ken, Hit. As the fight went they started to treat it like Hit was really getting stronger, but the earlier statements about Hit being incapable of powering up mid fight makes me unsure of that. As Piccolo says in the first scan, "He's talking about pure technique".

 

[Dagon]

Ki defense requires active effort. It's not a passive buff like casting Flesh spells in Skyrim. Ki defense in Dragon Ball is the equivalent of concentration spells in Skyrim, where the player must actively cast the spell continuously. That's why off guard attacks work better in dragon ball. Hit bypasses some defense when he freezes opponents.

Hit saying he can't power up is more referring to the fact that he doesn't have transformations or techniques that raise his power in the traditional sense. He of course can train to become stronger but he's like a human who has just their base form to rely on.

 

[Natasha Romanoff]

That's manga-only. If they had not been aware of timeskip they would have fallen for it, so it's not just power. I think Jiren does break out of Hit's pocket dimension, but I don't remember Goku ever doing it in the tournament.

Well as Goku shows, he can blitz Hit using the Kaio-Ken.

Characters even while knowing of TS can get frozen, however, characters with superior speed or power like Dyspo, Goku or Jiren simply bypass his haxed TS and shows it uneffective, in the case of Jiren, we managed to see that even a prison of accumulated time perish against his brute strength. When there's a vast difference in power in between Hit and the one he is fighting I doubt knowing or not about his TS would serve him right as his punches won't be able to affect them, with Vegeta we know he (Vegeta) was barely stronger than him, but it was never shown using it with someone whose power is far superior to his and being effective.

By knocked you mean KO'd, unconscious? ToP fighters are hardly ever KO'd because there's no need to. From the top of my head, I think only the U2 Yardrat was KO'd because Freeza made a point to torture him, and Freeza himself because GoD Toppo went overkill on him. Other fighters probably see it as a cruelty and waste of energy.

But we are talking logically of Jiren who as we see when he can oneshot someone he do it, other than Android 17 which most likely has plot shield doing him the favour of not getting oneshotted despite of being the weakest enemy Jiren ever fought. With Vegeta we got to see how he was put down in the floor in one regular blast and Freeza who went straight to kill him getting knocked in one hit.

Like how Base Goku has the same speed reaction to block SSJ2 Caulifla?

The problem is that here you are not taking into account the fact that TOEI always uses base saiyans to fight against opponents they could never expect to fight in actual battles (which is shown in the movies and the anime). Having say that it's not a nice example to bring as (with opposite to that) Jiren view Hit as a threat which he grouped him with Goku on top of Hit feeling the intensity of his punches which were the same as he used with Goku (stated by Hit himself).

I agree that he got better reflexes, but I also think that's a consequence of his timeskip.

Hit only ever activates his TS after the first hit Goku lands on him:

Spoiler

On top of it, Time Skip is something Hit can't activate at will he had to use though process in the medium so he can make use of it.

But Hit does scream and flare his aura when he improves his timeskip. He's copying the method but for a different kind of power up.

I can see Hit's power improving if it was only towards the end. Before Goku started using Kaio-Ken, Hit. As the fight went they started to treat it like Hit was really getting stronger, but the earlier statements about Hit being incapable of powering up mid fight makes me unsure of that. As Piccolo says in the first scan, "He's talking about pure technique".

As stated by the series itself, that scream didn't indicate a power up (which Goku pretty much realized) and it just serves to the purpose of Hit making a mimic/copying everything Goku did so he can adapt to his movements and improve himself in such a fashion by doing that.