Controversial issue #1 --> Vegeta SSJ and Android #18

[SSJ2]

Why is Cell potentially one shotting Vegeta with this gap? I do not agree, good sir.

Not one shot sir.

Spoiler

B..b.but, muh Yuuki was low!!!

 

[Future Warrior]

Why is Cell potentially one shotting Vegeta with this gap? I do not agree, good sir.

Not one shot sir.

Even if I stretch the Dodoria vs Vegeta gap a little bit, this would still be very close to being a one shot gap. 18 could hardly even do it herself from what we saw, let alone Cellular.

She was toying with Vegeta. I don't think 1.2x gap is one shot honestly. Dodoria had his guard down imo.

 

[Cell]

They cannot be equals at all for the simple fact that Cell does not rival the Androids but is still above Vegeta.

Personally, I think the tightest you could push it might be:
Vegeta: 100
Cell: 109
Android 18: 118
[Weighted] Kamiccolo: 121
Android 17: 124

 

[SSJ2]

Not one shot sir.

Even if I stretch the Dodoria vs Vegeta gap a little bit, this would still be very close to being a one shot gap. 18 could hardly even do it herself from what we saw, let alone Cellular.

She was toying with Vegeta. I don't think 1.2x gap is one shot honestly. Dodoria had his guard down imo.

I dunno. Why not take her word about getting serious? It seemed to me that she could only "one shot" Vegeta when he had worn himself out.

 

[Diamond Ryan]

The lowest I can reasonably push is a 25% gap

Vegeta - 100
Cell - 110
#18 - 125
Weighted Kamiccolo - 125
17 - 135
Kamiccolo - 140

 

[Void]

Piccolo w/o weights - 100
17 - 100
Piccolo w/ weights - 90
18 - 89
Gingertown Cell - 82
Vegeta - 75

 

[Diamond Ryan]

Piccolo w/o weights - 100
17 - 100
Piccolo w/ weights - 90
18 - 89
Gingertown Cell - 82
Vegeta - 75

Do you think that Cell rivals #18? Or do you not consider that type of gap rivaling.

 

[SSJ2]

Cell can rival 18 just as easily as Semi Cell rivaled SSJ2 Gohan. There is no problem.

 

[withheldforprivacy]

Do you think they are equal, far apart or in a mid term? Discuss.

I'll get more into the topic tomorrow when I have more time.

I'll start creating controversial topics, but won't create another after this until we have an answer for it.

It all depends on what you feel Vegeta/Ginger Cell gap should be.

 

[Evil Vegeta]

They're not close whatsoever. The idea of that alone is ridiculous.

 

[Future Warrior]

Why is Cell potentially one shotting Vegeta with this gap? I do not agree, good sir.

Not one shot sir.

Even if I stretch the Dodoria vs Vegeta gap a little bit, this would still be very close to being a one shot gap. 18 could hardly even do it herself from what we saw, let alone Cellular.

By that logic 18 would be less than 1.2x stronger because she couldn't one shot/two shot him.

 

[Pyro]

http://www.dbzeta.net/viewtopic.php?p=204813

We discussed this pretty in-depth before. Not much else I can say.

People put way too much emphasis on the stamina issue when it was basically forgotten about once the battle had ended.

 

[SSJ2]

I don't remember any of those posts.

 

[Void]

Piccolo w/o weights - 100
17 - 100
Piccolo w/ weights - 90
18 - 89
Gingertown Cell - 82
Vegeta - 75

Do you think that Cell rivals #18? Or do you not consider that type of gap rivaling.

Juuuuuuuuuussst outside rivaling, I tried to make the tighest numbers I could. I'd probably lower Cell and Vegeta down a few here.

 

[ahill1]

They cannot be equals at all for the simple fact that Cell does not rival the Androids but is still above Vegeta.

Personally, I think the tightest you could push it might be:
Vegeta: 100
Cell: 109
Android 18: 118
[Weighted] Kamiccolo: 121
Android 17: 124

Well there're people who don't think Ginger Town Cell is > Vegeta.

Besides, Kamiccolo was said to rival both androids... don't you think Cell can rival #18, but not #17, thus not fitting into the "rival both androids" statement?

 

[SSJ2]

I don't see why it can't be like that.

 

[Cell]

They cannot be equals at all for the simple fact that Cell does not rival the Androids but is still above Vegeta.

Personally, I think the tightest you could push it might be:
Vegeta: 100
Cell: 109
Android 18: 118
[Weighted] Kamiccolo: 121
Android 17: 124

Well there're people who don't think Ginger Town Cell is > Vegeta.

Well, they're incorrect. Vegeta makes it pretty clear that both powers involved (Cell and Piccolo) are beyond his own.

Besides, Kamiccolo was said to rival both androids... don't you think Cell can rival #18, but not #17, thus not fitting into the "rival both androids" statement?

Except that it's far too simple to have included that in 16's statement: "One of them rivals 18, the other rivals you both."

Cell wasn't mentioned...

 

[ahill1]

Well, they're incorrect. Vegeta makes it pretty clear that both powers involved (Cell and Piccolo) are beyond his own.

He said "one of the guy with this absurdly large chi has vanished... but the other keeps there", which isn't quite the same as saying he is weaker. The "absurdly large chi" was used generally by the weaker person, but it's still different than a clear cut statement like "Stronger than me". Not that I necessarily agree with it, but I'd like to see why you think Cell > Vegeta is completely factual.

Except that it's far too simple to have included that in 16's statement: "One of them rivals 18, the other rivals you both."

Cell wasn't mentioned...

Cell wasn't mentioned in ravaling both, which was what #16 said. Why would he include Cell if he doesn't rival both?

 

[Cell]

Well, they're incorrect. Vegeta makes it pretty clear that both powers involved (Cell and Piccolo) are beyond his own.

He said "one of the guy with this absurdly large chi has vanished... but the other keeps there", which isn't quite the same as saying he is weaker. The "absurdly large chi" was used generally by the weaker person, but it's still different than a clear cut statement like "Stronger than me". Not that I necessarily agree with it, but I'd like to see why you think Cell > Vegeta is completely factual.

Vegeta thinks it appropriate to group Piccolo and Cell together on the level of "absurdly large". If one's so obviously above him, why not the other?

Except that it's far too simple to have included that in 16's statement: "One of them rivals 18, the other rivals you both."

Cell wasn't mentioned...

Cell wasn't mentioned in ravaling both, which was what #16 said. Why would he include Cell if he doesn't rival both?

Because he's talking about rivaling. Why mention one rivalry and not another, very relevant one, if it existed?

 

[Let's Go Fearless!]

The Androids are pretty much on whole new level compare to Vegeta.

Chapter: 365 (DBZ 171), P2.5
Context: after Vegeta says they should just let Cell absorb the androids
Piccolo: “That would mean that Cell will greatly surpass No.17 and co., who you absolutely couldn’t handle.”