Could Kaioshin be sensed?

[SSJ2]

He does speak up. He blatantly states that Kaioshin is stronger than himself. Lol.

Chapter: 439 (DBZ 245), P10.3
Piccolo: “Wh-why…is it so hard for me to fight him?...Ev-Even though I've only just met him…”

So why doesn't he admit inferiority here? He is clearly uncomfortable for reasons not due to power.

The "Our dimensions…are too different…” can be interpreted as "he is a being of another dimension/realm" as Viz implies. Piccolo is no god, so he can't sense God ki. I don't make it any more complex than that.

 

[Papasmurf]

I don't think Kaioshin could sense either. The evidence for it doesn't seem solid.

Kaioshin can sense ki as shown when he noticed that the Earth's population was killed off by Boo, or when he sensed SSJ3 Goku. It's just very wonky in other instances for whatever reason.

@Papasmurf - oh, I miss that part, sorry. That's a good point. But there's also Goku not being able to sense Piccolo's ki (after being beaten by Imperfect Cell) until he went to save Tenshinhan.

True, but in this case we have two different people showing different reactions to the same ki.

 

[Uchiha]

I don't think Kaioshin could sense either.

Are you saying that Kaioshin can't sense Ki? Or just that he can't be sensed? Because he definitely can sense Ki.

Can you give a source for that. From what I've seen in debates people just reference instances of him sensing after a battle.

I think he can detect ki but not gauge it. That's the only way I can explain his reactions.

 

[ahill1]

I'm starting to see Kaioshin's power and the spaceship's events under a different belief. Now I'm thinking Kaioshin >> Piccolo >> base Saiyans is the best way to go, even though I recognize the other size has its reason to think otherwise.

 

[Papasmurf]

I don't think Kaioshin could sense either.

Are you saying that Kaioshin can't sense Ki? Or just that he can't be sensed? Because he definitely can sense Ki.

Can you give a source for that. From what I've seen in debates people just reference instances of him sensing after a battle.

I think he can detect ki but not gauge it. That's the only way I can explain his reactions.

He gauged the size of SSJ3 Goku's ki as well as SSJ2 Gohan's in the Budokai, so that's doubtful. I chalk it up to him being written as a clueless and scared character for the latter half of the Boo arc.

 

[SSJ2]

Until you can prove Piccolo can sense God ki, I don't consider your arguments to be relevant. Piccolo is a Namek, not a fellow God.

 

[SSJ2]

Clearly not being sensed by Piccolo.

 

[Uchiha]

Are you saying that Kaioshin can't sense Ki? Or just that he can't be sensed? Because he definitely can sense Ki.

Can you give a source for that. From what I've seen in debates people just reference instances of him sensing after a battle.

I think he can detect ki but not gauge it. That's the only way I can explain his reactions.

He gauged the size of SSJ3 Goku's ki as well as SSJ2 Gohan's in the Budokai, so that's doubtful. I chalk it up to him being written as a clueless and scared character for the latter half of the Boo arc.

I don't think he gauged either. He just recognized that they were more than him.

 

[SSJ2]

I just reread that part of the manga, and I see absolutely no way someone can draw the conclusion that Piccolo's forfeit is due to being weaker. He literally goes in and says "who is this" in his mind, to which Kaioshin responds "you'll find out". It clearly freaks Piccolo out, and sparks him to think he's the Grand Kaio.

 

[Papasmurf]

Can you give a source for that. From what I've seen in debates people just reference instances of him sensing after a battle.

I think he can detect ki but not gauge it. That's the only way I can explain his reactions.

He gauged the size of SSJ3 Goku's ki as well as SSJ2 Gohan's in the Budokai, so that's doubtful. I chalk it up to him being written as a clueless and scared character for the latter half of the Boo arc.

I don't think he gauged either. He just recognized that they were more than him.

Kaioshin was shown telling Goku and Vegeta that Gohan's ki was more than he anticipated and that he was doubtful he could contain that power, so I really see little reason to doubt his ability to gauge ki. He could also tell that Goku's ki as a SSJ3 was far greater than it was in SSJ and SSJ2. He just has moments where he appears extremely incompetent in other scenes

 

[SSJ2]

Further evidence is that even Kaio himself had no clue that Kaioshin was the Lord of Lords. If a higher being than a potential planet God couldn't sense him, then Piccolo sure as hell cannot.

 

[Six Trails]

Can you give a source for that. From what I've seen in debates people just reference instances of him sensing after a battle.

I think he can detect ki but not gauge it. That's the only way I can explain his reactions.

Chapter: 444 (DBZ 250), P7.1-4
Gohan: “Well, I’ve become a Super Saiyan. Now what? Is it alright if I fight like this?”
Kibito: “…Wh-what tremendous power…I can’t believe he’s a being of the lower world!”
Vegeta: “…Hmph…That bastard, he was far, far better when he killed Cell. It’s because he slacked off in his training during peacetime…”
Kaioshin: “…No, even so this is magnificent energy, more so than I imagined…I wonder if I’ll be able to stop this power…”
Goku: “…Stop it?”

Chapter: 439 (DBZ 245), P10.3
Piccolo: “Wh-why…is it so hard for me to fight him?...Ev-Even though I've only just met him…”

So why doesn't he admit inferiority here? He is clearly uncomfortable for reasons not due to power.

He admits it a few panels later. This is literally the same as asking why Tenshinhan didn't admit inferiority until Bootenks was about to blow up the planet and not a few panels before when he first arrived at the scene and sensed Boo.

The "Our dimensions…are too different…” can be interpreted as "he is a being of another dimension/realm" as Viz implies. Piccolo is no god, so he can't sense God ki.

Viz doesn't imply that Piccolo's assessment is only based on status. See here: http://www.neoseeker.com/forums/88/t2151740-you-put-supreme-kai/7.htm#m38719025

I don't make it any more complex than that.

You're making it more complex than it needs to be. Piccolo says that Kaioshin is stronger than himself, so obviously Kaioshin > Piccolo is the simplest route to go. When you start trying to assume what Piccolo can and can't sense is when you're further complicating things.

 

[Uchiha]

@Papasmurf I know about the one that @Mike mentioned above, but not any other. But I guess if he could tell the difference between SSJ3 and lower, that's still stupid considering he only understood SSJ transformations and that they boost power inside the spaceship.

 

[Papasmurf]

Ki sensors make mistakes in general all the time and those examples show he can gauge the potency of different ki, so I don't know what to tell you. H expects a ki level and senses something far beyond it, and acknowledges the fact. Good enough for me.

 

[ahill1]

I don't think Viz using the "different order of being" from a strength perpective has to mean it applies to Piccolo vs Kaioshin as well. I mean, Elder Kaioshin used the word troublesome before for a strength comparison, right? But id doesn't have to mean the troublesome referred to Kid Boo has to mean he is the strongest.

 

[xmysticgohanx]

No but his feats are still high SSJ Tier

 

[Let's Go Fearless!]

Kaioshin cannot be sensed. Only Gods like Dende, Piccolo etc., can sense him.

 

[SSJ2]

Get back to ya on this Mike.