Could Ultimate Gohan turn into a SSJ?

[ahill1]

At least as far as the manga goes, that doesn't seem to be the case. Gohan asked Elder Kaioshin for how to turn into that Super powerful warrior, to which Elder stated he should fire it up, just like Super Saiyajin... and yet Gohan didn't turn into a SSJ, he rather 'transformed' into that powerful warrior, accessed the Ultimate state.

Gohan even outted the "just like turning into a SSJ" words, and he still didn't turn into one... it's like that, as far as the manga goes, all Gohan's power and forms are stored/condensed into that state.

 

[SSJ2]

I don't think he could do it initially. Once given time and new limits to break, then sure.

 

[ahill1]

I don't think he could do it initially. Once given time and new limits to break, then sure.

That's a good point. Even though limit is basically a throaway line on DB, I have always liked to assume that Ultimate Gohan was really his limits and that he couldn't get past that. Which was contradicted in Super, but...

 

[Captain Cadaver]

As far as the manga goes, most likely not, given Elder Kaioshin's comments on Super Saiyan being a flashy transformation and just overstressing the body. Would be hypocritical of him to complain about such if his ritual didn't get rid of that flaw permanently.

 

[withheldforprivacy]

According to DBS anime, mystic state was a transformation with no physical changes.
Gohan lost access to it because of slacking off, but regained it after training with
Piccolo.

 

[Captain Cadaver]

According to DBS anime, mystic state was a transformation with no physical changes.Gohan lost access to it because of slacking off, but regained it after training with Piccolo.

At least as far as the manga goes

Also, if we're including sources not part of the original manga canon, there's GT having the opposite approach to Super and believing Ultimate is just a new base form with the SSJ forms being achieved through further training.

 

[Papasmurf]

I've stopped going with Gohan being Ultimate in GT after Super and BoG (movie) demonstrated that Toei believes the forms to be mutually exclusive. The eyes don't mean shit anymore after they showed Gohan still had the sharper eyes prior to reunlocking Ultimate.

One of Toei's writers also commented that in Z he was the Ultimate Warrior surpassing but comments he isn't like that anymore, which whilst interpretable as him just being surpassed by gary stu kid Galu, just shows to me that they don't think of him as that relatively powerful anymore, so he did light training at best and him being stronger than he was in Z is just due to GT's shit powerscaling.

 

[Papasmurf]

As for the topic, I think he could go super saiyan in theory since Galu proposed fusing as SSJs, but it just wouldn't result in any power boost. Plus, there's him turning SSJ in BoG and all that.

 

[Ultimate Cell]

I kinda always believed that the Ultimate State was a transformation instead of a base form. I mean Elder Kia said to try transforming into a Super Saiyan to unlock it. Super just confirms it.

 

[Papasmurf]

I think we'll have to wait until the manga confirms that considering Toei's done this with M13 too. One could easily argue "The SSJ form unlocks part of your hidden power, so activating it just ended up releasing all his potential due to the ceremony"

 

[ahill1]

As for the topic, I think he could go super saiyan in theory since Galu proposed fusing as SSJs, but it just wouldn't result in any power boost. Plus, there's him turning SSJ in BoG and all that.

I know that in VIZ Goku wondered whether they, as in, him and Gohan, should be SSJs before fusing. But for all I know that could be a VIZism, as according to Herms translations Goku could be simply referring to himself:

Chapter: 502 (DBZ 308), P1.3
Context: Goku asks if he should become a Super Saiyan before merging with the Potara, and Elder Kaioshin advices against it
Elder Kaioshin: “If you’re going to become a Super Saiyan, it’s better to do it after merging. But anyway, even without doing that, you’ll probably be plee~~eenty. The Potara’s power is just that amazing!”


"He should become a SSJ"...

What I get from that is that Goku thinks that a hypothetical Gokhan needs SSJ to fight against Bootenks... but that he isn't sure whether they can turn into SSJs after merging. And one of the reasons he might not be so sure is due Gohan apparently not being able to turn into a SSJ after having his potential unlocked, hence why he'd feel more comfortable becoming a SSJ before fusion.

 

[Papasmurf]

I feel like if AT were to illustrate Goku and Gohan fusing into SSJ Gokhan he would just have Gohan also transform with no power boost rather than making some base-SSJ/3 hybrid personally. What would Ultimate (base) Gohan and SSJ3 Galu fuse into, Potara Raditz? 2

 

[ahill1]

I feel like if AT were to illustrate Goku and Gohan fusing into SSJ Gokhan he would just have Gohan also transform with no power boost rather than making some base-SSJ/3 hybrid personally. What would Ultimate (base) Gohan and SSJ3 Galu fuse into, Potara Raditz? 2

Well, if Goku fused as a SSJ3 and Gohan as a SSJ1, wouldn't we have a hybrid fusion anyway?

 

[Papasmurf]

(3+1)/2 = 2, so they'd just be SSJ2.

 

[Future Warrior]

I don't think he could, at least in the manga. His Ultimate state already draws out the power of SSJ and beyond in his new base, which would explain why more often than not he takes on the appearance of one in everything but color. Toei doesn't seem to understand the logistics behind it though.

 

[Papasmurf]

I think in the manga "activating" Ultimate just made it his new base form, judging by the fact that he constantly had the look even when he wasn't powered up, so him going SSJ without a power boost is definitely feasible afterwards imo. Going by Super logic... well, I don't think there even is one, aside from him gaining his Boo arc hairstyle whenever he transforms.

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

I think he could, but would gain no power at all because of his powers already being on his limits.

 

[Future Warrior]

I don't know if I agree with that. There are some panels where he looks more akin to his previous base form when in a resting state.

Spoiler

I think the SSJ-like features start showing depending on how much power he uses.

 

[ahill1]

(3+1)/2 = 2, so they'd just be SSJ2.

Galu would just transform as a SSJ2 then.

(2+0)/2 = 1 --> Gokhan would be a SSJ1

 

[Southern Gothic]

Not initially, no. I think the point was to make Ultimate Gohan as is, which obviously changed over time.