Could you accept [Yardrat] SSJ Goku ~ [Initial] SSJ Trunks?

[Cell]

Could you accept the notion of Goku and Trunks being roughly equals?

With Trunks doing "fairly well" against the Android pair, and Goku having 3 years of uninterrupted training... I don't think he necessarily has to be as far above Trunks as many put him. Goku also notes that Trunks isn't putting his all into the finger vs sword confrontation...

Heck, could you justify Trunks > Goku at that point in time?

 

[Let's Go Fearless!]

When Trunks said Goku is greater than the rumours, it probably refers Goku's overall as he was a full of surprises which gave Trunks a hope for Goku. As for Trunks being equal to Goku, I don't think so. Goku doesn't have to be a lot stronger than Trunks but still there's a noticeable gap between them say like Kid Gohan and Goku from Boo arc IMO.

 

[Void]

I never thought the gap between them was very big at all honestly, so I'm definitely open to them being roughly equal.

 

[Animelover5487]

Gohan said Goku is stronger and according to Bulma, Gohan rivals Trunks and this is before Trunks said that Goku is even better than the rumors.

Yardrat Goku > Goku (Expected) > Trunks >= Gohan

 

[Let's Go Fearless!]

Gohan said Goku is stronger and according to Bulma, Gohan rivals Trunks and this is before Trunks said that Goku is even better than the rumors.

Yardrat Goku > Goku (Expected) > Trunks >= Gohan

Maybe Gohan was referring about Goku's power before he died from virus.

 

[Diamond Ryan]

I don't think so. Even though Trunks wasn't going all out, Goku clearly wasn't either. (I mean, he was only using his finger). It was greatly implied from that scene alone that Goku was > Trunks. Plus, adding on what Animelover said pretty much confirms for me that Yardrat Goku is superior to Trunks, although it doesn't have to be by an overwhelming amount.

 

[Future Warrior]

Goku has a big advantage over Trunks imo.

 

[Pyro]

I didn't think it was a big gap, but it was a gap nonetheless. Goku was stronger than the rumors Trunks had been told, which said he was already the strongest.

 

[Cell]

True but there's also a window Goku has to get stronger before those expected levels.

Trunks Timeline: [Right Before Death] Goku > [Yardrat] Goku

So, if Gohan was talking about [RBD] Goku, then Trunks would expect something less from [Yardrat] Goku. Goku surpasses that expectation... but that doesn't necessarily equate to surpassing Gohan/Trunks... he had months to train... Gohan expected Trunks to surpass him in months... a SSJ child he was sparring in base... so I think Trunks might have warped expectations when it comes to gains (although I wouldn't call them wrong when it comes to half-Saiyans).

So you could have a chain like this:

[Right Before Death] SSJ Goku > SSJ Trunks ~ [Yardrat] SSJ Goku > [Trunks Expectations of Yardrat] SSJ Goku

 

[p123]

Yes, that is plausible. However, I do feel you are reaching, the story clearly indicates what AnimeLover said. Don't warp the story to fit your interpretation. The sparring session showed that Goku had a gigantic advantage over Trunks, learning that Trunks wasn't going all out turns that gigantic advantage into a moderate advantage, no need to discredit the sparring session completely. Goku and Trunks are not rivals imo.

 

[Cell]

I'm not warping anything... just looking at everything from every angle... looking at the possible conclusions.

Neither were going all out in that encounter.

If you wanted to see reaching, you could deduce that finger > sword because the Ki is more focused... as opposed to being spread across an entire blade... and Goku is simply a superior warrior for knowing such a thing... foreshadowing Trunks' inexperience, which leads to his whole SSJG3 fiasco.

EDIT: Could also reach and say that no matter how strong Gohan got he'd never surpass the idealized version of Goku he had in his head.

 

[p123]

Your reaching goes against you.

There's not many instances of skill being able to trump power. When fighter's are of equal power, it's generally going to be a long, drawn out fight.

Also, there is no evidence that Gohan was ever wrong about Goku being the strongest. Trunks actually backs up Gohan's stories, so you are beyond reaching, you are actually just pulling shit out of your ass now.

 

[Cell]

Like I was saying... "If you wanted to see reaching..."

I was giving you examples of ass-pulling... highlighting how they're very different from what I was talking about. No need to convince me.

 

[p123]

I'm saying there's a difference.

1) Plausible Points
2) Reaching
3) Ass Pulling

You started with 2, worked your way for 3 and I'm still waiting for you to show a little of 1.

 

[ahill1]

I think they aren't too far apart. Trunks calls Goku amazing (which isn't an indication of them being close though since 22nd Budokai Goku called Yamcha amazing, but I think in that context it does) and says the androids who Trunks considered monsters scared him. But I wouldn't say Trunks is stronger, they are equals at most, although I prefer to give Goku a slight advantage. I think Trunks was expecting Yardrat SSJ Goku to be = him and was surprised when the reality was greater still.

I don't think Trunks was expecting Goku (right before dying being) >> Yardrat Goku, honestly. Trunks stated Goku will die not long after that (I think Herms had it at 6 months) and wasn't expecting some vigorous training due to the obliviousness of the upcoming threat. Therefore if Gohan says he hopes to be as strong as dad before dying and that isn't easy, I doubt he'd be expecting Goku to be < him, = works better imo.

Mecha Freeza : 160,000,000
Trunks SSJ : 200,000,000
Goku SSJ [expected by trunks] : 200,000,000
---> true power : 220,000,000

 

[p123]

Na, you are nerfing Goku imo. Something like this is more appropriate.

Trunks 200
Expected Goku 220
Actual Goku 250

 

[Cell]

I'm saying there's a difference.

1) Plausible Points
2) Reaching
3) Ass Pulling

You started with 2, worked your way for 3 and I'm still waiting for you to show a little of 1.

And yet, your opening sentence in your first reply was "Yes, that's plausible."


Trunks was expecting a Goku that, in 6 months time, was at a level Gohan hadn't reached yet.
Trunks gains power quickly, and is told by Gohan that he could surpass Gohan in a few months... literally moments after sparring SSJ vs Base.

With those points, if you wanted to take it to an extreme, you could justify Trunks' expectations of [Yardrat] SSJ Goku to be equal to his [SparringGohan] SSJ Self.

 

[Evil Vegeta]

I think Goku is comfortably stronger. If they fought, Trunks would make it a fight, but I don't think he'd win.

 

[ahill1]

I would honestly take that "you'll leave me in the dust in a few months" with a grain of salt considering that even after 3 years Trunks isn't so amazingly different from Gohan. That statement does seem a little too exaggerated considering base Gohan appeared to be stronger than SSJ Trunks, although Trunks obviously improved a good deal in those 4 years.

Also, I remember Herms saying it was 6 months. Where did he say it? Also, does Trunks know the amount of time? He only mentions "you'll die soon from now".

 

[Evil Vegeta]

I don't believe an exact time was mentioned.

I think the 6 months was in the History of Trunks, but I can't check right now.