DA: Tao Pai Pai is stronger than Kuririn, Yamcha, etc

[Animelover5487]

I think the events of the Baba saga were retconed in the 22nd Budokai and Tao is stronger than Kuririn/Yamcha/Chaozu,/Chappa. Roshi was surprised when Goku said he killed Tao and the Crane Hermit was in disbelief that a student of Rishi's could kill Tao despite watching Yamcha and Kuririn's matches. All of this makes a lot more sense if no one knew about Goku's Karin tower gains.

 

[Papasmurf]

What do you think of the theory that Tao weakened since his prime? Toriyama said in an interview that Tao was one step ahead of his brother when they were competing, but 22nd Tsuru seems to be significantly above Tao and stomping weaklings like Blue and Bora couldn't have been a particularly power raising activity for Taopaipai

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

Eh, I never really understood why anyone would think Tao is so strong. Maybe he's stronger than Chappa, but that's it. All we really hear about Tao in the 22nd is Tenshinhan being pissed that Goku defeated him. Goku says his fight with Kuririn was the funniest he'd ever had and Tsuru even says Goku might have beaten Tao based on how he beats Pamputto of all people, lol.

 

[Hector]

I think the events of the Baba saga were retconed in the 22nd Budokai and Tao is stronger than Kuririn/Yamcha/Chaozu,/Chappa. Roshi was surprised when Goku said he killed Tao and the Crane Hermit was in disbelief that a student of Rishi's could kill Tao despite watching Yamcha and Kuririn's matches. All of this makes a lot more sense if no one knew about Goku's Karin tower gains.

It is not unreasonable to give Goku small gains during the 3-year gap. All he did was roam here and there.

 

[Animelover5487]

What do you think of the theory that Tao weakened since his prime? Toriyama said in an interview that Tao was one step ahead of his brother when they were competing, but 22nd Tsuru seems to be significantly above Tao and stomping weaklings like Blue and Bora couldn't have been a particularly power raising activity for Taopaipai

Not sure because even though he is technically hundreds of years old, he didn't seem to be effected so drastically by his old age as Roshi and the Crane Hermit we're.

Eh, I never really understood why anyone would think Tao is so strong. Maybe he's stronger than Chappa, but that's it. All we really hear about Tao in the 22nd is Tenshinhan being pissed that Goku defeated him. Goku says his fight with Kuririn was the funniest he'd ever had and Tsuru even says Goku might have beaten Tao based on how he beats Pamputto of all people, lol.

Roshi was surprised Goku could kill Tao despite having witnessed Kuririn and Yamcha's growth. If everyone and their mama was stronger than Tao from 3 years ago than Goku killing him shouldn't be a big deal.

Chapter: 120, P11.1-2
Context: Goku revealed that he defeated Taopaipai. Tenshinhan did not believe it.
Jackie Chun: “Did you really…take down Taopaipai…?”
Goku: “Huh? You too, gramps? I did so! It wasn’t easy, though…him being so strong and all.”
Jackie Chun: “Taopaipai…said to be the world’s Number One assassin…and this lad…he…he

As for how Goku beat Panputto. It seems more about the specific way he beat him that impressed Tien and the Crane Hermit than anything.

It is not unreasonable to give Goku small gains during the 3-year gap. All he did was roam here and there.

But then, you would have to retcon the events of the Baba arc where everyone witnessed Goku's Karin tower gains so that someone like Chappa isn't so strong.

 

[Papasmurf]

Tsuru repeats his old assessment that Goku may have truly beaten Tao both after he defeats Panputto and after he beats Kuririn, and we know even though Battle Level Goku would've stomped either in seconds (hell full power Match Goku would've probably done so), the assessment is repeated. So maybe it's not a power thing as much as it is a fame/infamy thing. Only people more infamous than Tao would be... Piccolo Daimao, lol, so Tao gets overwanked similar to Freeza after Namek.

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

But then, you would have to retcon the events of the Baba arc where everyone witnessed Goku's Karin tower gains so that someone like Chappa isn't so strong.

To be fair, I can see a point being made for Goku only using his match-level power against Gohan. He does say he's going at full power on Kuririn, but then tells Tenshinhan he only uses his true, battle level power in life or death situations.

Roshi was surprised Goku could kill Tao despite having witnessed Kuririn and Yamcha's growth. If everyone and their mama was stronger than Tao from 3 years ago than Goku killing him shouldn't be a big deal.

Chapter: 120, P11.1-2
Context: Goku revealed that he defeated Taopaipai. Tenshinhan did not believe it.
Jackie Chun: “Did you really…take down Taopaipai…?”
Goku: “Huh? You too, gramps? I did so! It wasn’t easy, though…him being so strong and all.”
Jackie Chun: “Taopaipai…said to be the world’s Number One assassin…and this lad…he…he

As for how Goku beat Panputto. It seems more about the specific way he beat him that impressed Tien and the Crane Hermit than anything.

Sounds more like he's surprised Goku actually went ahead and did it, rather than being surprised Goku had the power to do it. Does Roshi even know how strong Tao is? He seems to be going off reputation here.

 

[Hector]

But then, you would have to retcon the events of the Baba arc where everyone witnessed Goku's Karin tower gains so that someone like Chappa isn't so strong.

Most of them couldn't even sense chi back then.

 

[Animelover5487]

To be fair, I can see a point being made for Goku only using his match-level power against Gohan. He does say he's going at full power on Kuririn, but then tells Tenshinhan he only uses his true, battle level power in life or death situations.

That is actually a really good argument. You know what? I think I am going to actually use this in my next power level list so I can have:

Tao Pai Pai > Gohan, 22nd Chappa, Chaozu, Yamcha, Kuririn

 

[SIAD]

If we follow that logic, then only Goku surpassed Ginyu in the Frieza Arc, since Frieza commented that he did not expect anyone to surpass Ginyu, only when he met Goku, however he did not say the same about Vegeta and Piccolo.

 

[Animelover5487]

If we follow that logic, then only Goku surpassed Ginyu in the Frieza Arc, since Frieza commented that he did not expect anyone to surpass Ginyu, only when he met Goku, however he did not say the same about Vegeta and Piccolo.

Vegeta and Piccolo actually have feats that support them being stronger than Ginyu.

Everyone else don't have to be stronger than Tao as Goku and Ten were drastically holding back until their final match. Tenshinhan seemed to hold Tao's power in high regard and being a student of his he would know how strong is while Ten didn't think too much of Yamcha. The only character besides Goku and Crane that are stronger than Tao is Roshi, who Ten actually says is the strongest opponent he's ever fought.

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

That is actually a really good argument. You know what? I think I am going to actually use this in my next power level list so I can have:

Tao Pai Pai > Gohan, 22nd Chappa, Chaozu, Yamcha, Kuririn

I’d certainly like to see a list trying that, even if I’m convinced Tao was just overrated. Who would be the first person to surpass Tao? Tsuru? Roshi?

 

[Fantastische Hure]

I’d certainly like to see a list trying that, even if I’m convinced Tao was just overrated. Who would be the first person to surpass Tao? Tsuru? Roshi?

Most likely Tsuru-sen'nin & Joe.

 

[Animelover5487]

I’d certainly like to see a list trying that, even if I’m convinced Tao was just overrated. Who would be the first person to surpass Tao? Tsuru? Roshi?

Roshi is stronger than Tao. And I think Tsuru was either a little stronger than Tao or they were rivals. Not sure if this was in the manga but at least in the anime Crane talked about a fight they got into in the past during Ten's match with Tao at the 23rd.

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

I think Tenshinhan comparing Roshi to Tsuru is an interesting insight. That shows us Tien isn't one to get in denial when one of his masters is surpassed, so he could easily have said to himself that Roshi is even stronger than Tao too.

Chapter: 123, P13.4
Tenshinhan: “This geezer is absolutely unbelievable. I don’t know who he is, but his power goes above even Lord Tsuru-sennin…!”

This is still suppressed Roshi, but it's interesting to see Tenshinhan is willing to compare members of the Turtle and Crane Schools but never compares anyone to Tao nonetheless.

 

[Animelover5487]

He said "even" though, like Crane was the highest benchmark and in the anime he outright calls Roshi the strongest opponent he's fought.

 

[Yoshi]

Tao Pai Pai is only stronger than Chi Chi.

 

[FeatsofPower]

Chappa would smoke Tao, there's literal evidence of this

 

[Animelover5487]

Chappa would smoke Tao, there's literal evidence of this

What evidence? Chun is surprised that Goku can defeat both. Tien possibly saw Goku's match with Chappa and still thought Yamcha was the strongest initially and he didn't think Yamcha was too special while whoever can kill Tao is incredible.

Tao Pai Pai is only stronger than Chi Chi.

Chi-Chi would solo the 22nd TB.

 

[Fantastische Hure]

He held Tao on a pedestal.