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- Dec 23, 2022
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I wanna post this here to get some outside ideas on Daima's scaling. I've seen some discourse, mainly just people saying they're namek saga victims (on youtube i mean, not sure about here. Crazy btw), but from what I can gather they're much stronger than that.
I also have a theoretical multiplier for SSJ4, although it's mainly speculative as it makes some assumptions.
I'll also be using Buuhan > Kid Buu ~ SSJ3 Goku. I know about the kid buu arguments, i don't hold to them. Feel free to reinterpret as you wish.
So first of all, in the preamble to each episode, it states that Goku is the strongest warrior:
This can be used to suggest that at the very least, Adult SSj3 Daima Goku > Ultimate Gohan.
Kaioshin also implies this in a later episode, albeit about mini Goku:
Also, the narrative implication from turning them mini is that they are weaker, so mini goku < adult goku:
Goku beats Tamagami 3 in SSJ2. Arinsu responds to Glorio's notification of this fact by saying that she didn't expect it to go so smoothly:
Arinsu was present with Fat Buu + collected samples from him, and saw him on tv. Her having knowledge on the buu's power would suggest that Tamagami 3 is actually fat Buu level at least, since she wouldn't have been expecting it to go as smoothly as it did if they were weakened beyond fat Buu (she knows they had the power to beat Buu).
Gomah also says that Goku is stronger than he imagined, which could include the Goku who is capable of beating Buu:
Additionally, Neva is surprised at them being able to beat Tamagami 3:
He also states that he didn’t expect them to be so strong “especially as children”. Neva was around with Majin Buu in the demon realm he should have some knowledge of his power.
Cumulatively this paints the idea that narratively, the Tamagamis should be Buu level in some regard.
Now, there is the argument that since Daima “compares” Dabra to Tamagami 3, that Tamagami 3 is only Cell saga tier in power.
This doesn’t follow, since #1 it simply says “even Dabra failed to beat Tamagami 3”:
This does not necessarily imply closeness, only that Tamagami 3 is unquantifiably stronger than pre-Majin Dabra. Which could easily include anything from cell tier with no actual inherent ceiling.
#2 Dabra is the only character the story can actually use, since he’s the only one who even challenged the Tamagamis. And there is no indication that they fought Buu.
#3 If Tamagami 3 were merely around Cell/Dabura level, then Goku who is already known by Arinsu, Gomah and Neva to have defeated Buu would not logically be expected to struggle with him, even accounting for becoming a child (Arinsu didn’t expect it to go so smoothly as it did, and Neva didn’t expect them to be that strong “even as children”).
Yet the series repeatedly presents defeating the Tamagami as an accomplishment that surprises characters already familiar with Goku's Buu Saga feat. I believe this is more consistent with that interpretation than with a Cell-level interpretation.
Now let's go into the Gomah part.
We can observe from the fight that SSJ3 mini Goku is somewhat relative to Third-Eye Gomah (before powering up), since he is capable of blitzing Gomah, but also clashes evenly with him:
This Gomah is stated by DB Official to be “the strongest enemy”:
“物語はいよいよクライマックスへ！ 魔のサードアイを手に入れた最強の敵・ゴマーと対峙する悟空たち。ラストバトルへと突入するクライマックス予告が解禁!!”
“The story finally reaches its climax! Goku and his team face off against the strongest enemy, Goma, who has obtained the Demon's Third Eye. The climax trailer for the final battle is released!”
This can be used to suggest Gomah > strongest Buu.
I've reached the image limit now, so I'm going to add a reply to this continuing it.
I also have a theoretical multiplier for SSJ4, although it's mainly speculative as it makes some assumptions.
I'll also be using Buuhan > Kid Buu ~ SSJ3 Goku. I know about the kid buu arguments, i don't hold to them. Feel free to reinterpret as you wish.
So first of all, in the preamble to each episode, it states that Goku is the strongest warrior:
Kaioshin also implies this in a later episode, albeit about mini Goku:
Also, the narrative implication from turning them mini is that they are weaker, so mini goku < adult goku:
Goku beats Tamagami 3 in SSJ2. Arinsu responds to Glorio's notification of this fact by saying that she didn't expect it to go so smoothly:
Gomah also says that Goku is stronger than he imagined, which could include the Goku who is capable of beating Buu:
Additionally, Neva is surprised at them being able to beat Tamagami 3:
Cumulatively this paints the idea that narratively, the Tamagamis should be Buu level in some regard.
Now, there is the argument that since Daima “compares” Dabra to Tamagami 3, that Tamagami 3 is only Cell saga tier in power.
This doesn’t follow, since #1 it simply says “even Dabra failed to beat Tamagami 3”:
#2 Dabra is the only character the story can actually use, since he’s the only one who even challenged the Tamagamis. And there is no indication that they fought Buu.
#3 If Tamagami 3 were merely around Cell/Dabura level, then Goku who is already known by Arinsu, Gomah and Neva to have defeated Buu would not logically be expected to struggle with him, even accounting for becoming a child (Arinsu didn’t expect it to go so smoothly as it did, and Neva didn’t expect them to be that strong “even as children”).
Yet the series repeatedly presents defeating the Tamagami as an accomplishment that surprises characters already familiar with Goku's Buu Saga feat. I believe this is more consistent with that interpretation than with a Cell-level interpretation.
Now let's go into the Gomah part.
We can observe from the fight that SSJ3 mini Goku is somewhat relative to Third-Eye Gomah (before powering up), since he is capable of blitzing Gomah, but also clashes evenly with him:
This Gomah is stated by DB Official to be “the strongest enemy”:
“The story finally reaches its climax! Goku and his team face off against the strongest enemy, Goma, who has obtained the Demon's Third Eye. The climax trailer for the final battle is released!”
This can be used to suggest Gomah > strongest Buu.
I've reached the image limit now, so I'm going to add a reply to this continuing it.
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