DBZ Rewatch

Captain Cadaver

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So, I rewatched the Bardock Special and for a special the length of 2 episodes, it does so much right to cement its popularity in the Dragon Ball franchise. First and foremost amongst is how different in tone it is compared to all other instalments of the franchise. Beyond the ending's optimism towards Goku eventually being the one to defeat Freeza, the story is one that mainly has a depressing tone when it comes to Bardock's complete inability to make a difference and has strong elements associated with a Greek Tragedy in how Bardock's visions are ones that don't allow him to change his future or really be the sole stimulus of his character. Moreover, having the idea of Goku's events being predestined in Bardock's visions works here as they're events outside of Bardock's control and (unlike the Oracle Fish in Super), they're for future events prior to the changes of time travelling damaging any sense of preordained events. On the subject of Greek Tragedy, this excuses some of the more obvious cases of exposition such as Zarbon mentioning how Freeza has taken interest in Vegeta whilst in Freeza's presence as it fits with the narrative tone of the special with how a common element of Greek theatre was the chorus making some elements of the plot evident to the audience.

Speaking of the protagonist of the story, Bardock is simplistic, but executed so well in his role in the story that his popularity is well earned as being one of the best characters in the franchise. He manages to perfectly be utilised in being a character who stands out without brushing aside any previously established continuity. Despite his endearing motivation to carry on his friends' will and defeat Freeza for the justified cause of the Saiyans having only been killed for doing their job too well, he's still very much evil by human standards in him having no care for the weak, a love of killing others and only caring about his son due to his visions. This helps keep Goku's uniqueness amongst Saiyans intact (until DB Minus ruined that). Moreover, the premise of Goku's father being the one to challenge Freeza seemed like a poor premise so easy to ruin the entire story with how convenient it is in how Goku's father would be presented as so special and how much it'd shrink the series' scope. However, the premise was executed wonderfully as Bardock is treat as some no-name by Zarbon and is ultimately able to do nothing to Freeza beyond being a faint memory to Freeza decades later. Even Bardock having a battle power of 10,000 makes sense when considering he represents what the other Saiyans could've achieved through taking on difficult missions to gain Zenkais rather than Freeza limiting them to the extent even Raditz was never badly injured prior to landing on Earth. It really does show how well the Bardock Special holds up when despite focusing on the franchise's protagonist's father, it never deifies him in the way many of the Shonen series inspired by DB have to make things seem far more coincidental and forced (One Piece, Naruto and Bleach in particular, as well as Hunter X Hunter to some extent).

As for the elements outside of Bardock's story, there's still a lot to offer. It's interesting how Vegeta's attire when training against the Saibaimen is almost identical to what he wore in the Boo Arc as well as how his armour introduces the royal Saiyan emblem that's become fairly iconic despite its limited usage. Freeza's polite nature with Vegeta to the point of shutting down Zarbon's opinion does a fair bit to show Freeza did see Vegeta's potential as a useful subordinate, which does a fair bit to contextualise him causing Vegeta to suffer later on during their fight years later beyond just his anger in not getting his wish. On the subject of Vegeta, his lack of interest in the news of Planet Vegeta does line up with what he tells Dodoria but, considering his tears at death was partially due to the Saiyans having suffered under Freeza, does add another layer to his psychology. This kind of detachment is a way that many cope with trauma and adds to his conquest of planets in being his way of showing that he isn't weak stemming from an inability to save his race, which lines up well with the narcissistic traits I mentioned he had in my character analysis of him.
We also get to see some nice little details to the universe such as showing how the Saiyans liked to spend their spare time in bars or how Kakarrot being able to hear the last plea of Bardock's will somewhat plugs up the hole within the anime of characters sometimes visualising those they haven't met in dreams by suggesting some form of psychic links may manifest in the right circumstances.

It's still far from a perfect addition though as there are some criticisms to find. Bardock's friends aren't really fleshed out at all with the closest thing they have to character traits being Totepo eating before going into battle. Still, that is excusable since the special's primary focus is on Bardock and showing friendship among Saiyans beyond that of battle would go against how the race was characterised in the main series. The only major criticism I'd have is the ending. I'm fine with Goku being presented as happy when Gohan holds him as you can't expect a newborn to be showing its aggression immediately even if a Saiyan. However, Gohan finding him in the woods away from the pod goes directly against what we're shown in the anime and told by Roshi. It isn't a major contradiction, considering Roshi's words and the visuals for it may not line up 100% with what occurred, but is is still a notable deviation.

That said, the Bardock Special solidifies itself in standing the test of time as a great addition to the franchise. Not only is its tone and focus far different from the main series and any other instalment of the franchise (the Trunks Special being the only one vaguely similar in that regard) but it also acts as what can be considered an example of how to do good fan-fiction due to Toriyama's involvement only coming from character designs. It is a story that wasn't necessarily essential for informing us of the main story, yet that irrelevancy fits perfectly with the point of Bardock's crusade against Freeza and when judging it by what it set out to achieve, it is excellent in that regard.
 

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Episode 64 - I do have to wonder what compelled Toei to think putting in normal sized birds fit with Namek's environment. After all, the entirety of its wildlife thus far had been large creatures and aquatic ones at that, so unless they're feeding on frogs or being hunter by land-dwelling creatures we never saw, there's no real reason for small birds to have evolved on Namek.
Vegeta VS ReaCoom is a pretty good stomp match. Unlike others in the series, there's more personality behind ReaCoom toying with Vegeta with it being for the sake of putting on a show, which goes well with his wrestling fighting style. I do find his techniques quite lacking when considering the Ginyu Tokusentai are meant to be mutants and we've seen and will see how creative Ghurd and Ginyu's skills are respectively, though the theme and corniness of ReaCoom's moves almost make up for it. It goes without saying that this is where the Great Saiyman found his inspiration :troll2 Him losing some teeth due to his mouth being closed during the ReaCoom Eraser Gun does bring into question why such mouth blasts are used in the first place as opposed to...literally any other type of Ki blast. I guess Toriyama came to the same conclusion, given that the only other characters to use them after this in the manga were Boo and Gotenks. Also, it's worth noting that the anime corrected the over 20,000 figure for Vegeta to over 30,000 long before the Kanzenban editions were a thing, so nice job Toei.
One filler addition here that's a massive improvement from the manga is the scene of Freeza evaluating Namek's quality as despite what we're told of his profession in the manga, we're never really shown him doing the work associated with his trade. His mention of perhaps making it a home for exiles is quite interesting. Maybe he was planning on quarantining certain races there or maybe making it a home for exiled refugees. Quite a realistic idea for someone managing an empire and shows Freeza may have had some positive attributes to those serving him. He then thinks about perhaps turning it into fireworks, which is quite fitting with this having aired immediately after the Bardock Special.




Episode 65 - The padding to Gohan VS ReaCoom works for both sides. It helps show Gohan's resolve and his hidden power to last so long against his foe whilst also showing how much ReaCoom likes toying with his opponents. The state Gohan's left in by the end of the fight is far more intense than anything he's suffered thus far. I can certainly see why he really didn't want to fight at the Cell Game when this was what he was going through at just 5, but more on that in due time.
Ginyu doing the dance of joy rather than just mentioning it is definitely an improvement.
The filler with Chichi doesn't really add much, though it is funny to note how Bulma's mother doesn't bother to learn her name, just referring to her as Goku's Wife or "Missus".




Episode 66 - Goku shows off quite a few good improvements beyond his battle power. Along with him naturally acquiring the mind-reading similar to what Roshi used at the 21st TB as Future Warrior said in a previous thread, him being able to control his power through bursts was the best Ki control displayed up to that point and is in many ways the result of Popo's teachings of not making unnecessary movements along with the improved Ki control learnt from Kaio. Also, Nozawa's voice acting during the fight is pretty interesting with the confidence and depth added to Goku's tone that would later become synonymous with his SS3 and 4 forms, with it being quite similar to her performance as Bardock a few weeks prior.
As for the ReaCoom fight and its similarities to the other "Fashionably late Goku" instances (particularly the Nappa fight), they can be easily compared. Overall, the Nappa fight had more drama and tension to it through the character deaths and Goku's anger, though the ReaCoom fight (and the Jheese/Butta fight to follow) did a better job at showing the results of Goku's training through more than power.
We of course get Vegeta's first mention of Super Saiyan in the context of the legend with him initially writing it off as a fable, explaining the usage of it in the Saiyan Arc in a more understandable way as well as why Vegeta never mentioned it prior. The anime's interpretation of the Super Saiyan would of course later be used for the Golden Oozaru in GT, which was a nice callback.
 

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Would would say the tone of the Bardock special is that different from the series at that point in time? I'd say the Saiyans and Freeza arc had been pretty tense and serious tone-wise, with the interactions and the atmospheres built by the soundtracks being all anything but light-weight.
 

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Yes. Unlike the main series which, despite its tension, still contains a mostly optimistic tone, the Bardock Special leaves very little room for that beyond the last scene with how we know Bardock's efforts will be ultimately fruitless as well as how the focus was primarily on a villainous protagonist.
 

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Captain Cadaver said:
On the subject of that moment and the Saiyans, the anime changes the dialogue after Raditz tells Goku of the Saiyan Survivors' fates. He says that he and another Saiyan were conquering one world whereas another Saiyan had been sent to his own planet much like Goku, suggesting they were an infant. This would suggest Toei had the idea in mind of Raditz being closer to Nappa's age than Vegeta and Vegeta being close to Goku's age. Of course, this is later explained in DB Minus of all things to be Raditz and Vegeta conquering one world whereas Nappa was conquering one on his own, though the wording here definitely painted a different picture.

I know that this was from a while back but I feel it's still worth mentioning as I've found out some new info regarding this.

Apparently, the point about Raditz specifying the Saiyans locations during Planet Vegeta's destruction wasn't just an anime addition. It was in the original dialogue from the manga as well, but Viz decided to remove this detail entirely. Vegeta being the Saiyan that was sent to his own planet seems to make the most sense, and the Bardock special does seem to support this. Although, Vegeta wasn't an infant at this point and was already seen as a promising warrior, so I'm guessing it might be a case of Toriyama not solidifying his idea of the other two Saiyans at this point yet.

As for what is established from the Broly movie, none of it is even remotely possible to reconcile with what Raditz says. All the surviving Saiyans (including Nappa and 2 other unknown Saiyans) were all confined to one planet.
 

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Episodes 67 and 68 - Continuing on from the previous episode, Goku's fight against Jheese and Butta further shows how well he's able to control his Ki in bursts, the anime also adding an impressive feat of him moving so fast it appears their attacks are phasing through him. Unfortunately, some of the padding towards the start of the fight really damages it. Unlike in the manga where we see Butta starting behind Jheese before outspeeding him, they seem about equal in speed in the anime (Jheese seems faster in their initial flight, if anything) which makes it more difficult to believe Butta's "I'm the fastest in the universe!" proclamations even without knowledge of the fight against Ginyu soon to come. The Purple Comet Crush is some missed potential as well. I do like how the idea of a dual attack helps showcase the idea that Butta and Jheese are a duo with comradery stronger than that of their fellow Tokusentai members, but having the ultimate team attack of two mutants just be a volley of Ki blasts is pretty underwhelming.
Goku sparing ReaCoom and Butta and criticising Vegeta for killing them when they couldn't defend themselves ties into the idea that Goku doesn't wish to strike an opponent when they're down as he showed against Raditz and, most notably, will show against Freeza at the end of the arc.
The filler with Ginyu at the ship was good for the most part with him testing out his poses using the remaining soldiers and beating them into shape whilst offering them a caramel as a reward. It shows more of the playful personality of the Ginyu Tokusentai. Also, the amount of soldiers definitely makes Anime Freeza seem to have prepared a lot better for his trip to gain immortality than his manga self did.




Episode 69 - Goku VS Ginyu further shows a key aspect of the results of Goku's training. Ginyu gives no indication he's holding back after his power up, yet admits Goku might have the edge in speed. This makes a lot of sense with how much lighter Goku's movements feel to him after enduring 100G, so it'd make sense for him to be naturally faster than opponents with a decent advantage in power. It's a nice detail that showed Toriyama wasn't having power be the determining factor of almost every fight.
The scene with Bulma presents her as being very selfish in wanting to leave everyone behind if she had the chance to get home, which is in line with her character at this point. It does raise the question of why Toriyama didn't just have her head back to Earth in Kami's ship without the scouts interfering when her role in the manga's plot upon arriving on Namek was non-existent.
Even without the anime's padding, Goku's power up in Kaio-ken being so drawn out does come off as forced in the anime when they had made him instantly go into it to arrive at the battlefield. I guess he just really wanted to flex his number to Ginyu. The ending narration with the narrator asking what Goku or Ginyu's true power could be is pretty funny, Toei seemingly being aware of how much the fans were being obsessed about battle powers at this point in the series.
 

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Episode 70 - Jheese states that Ginyu's highest rating was 120k. The tense may be a mistranslation given that Herms has it in present tense, though it does present an interesting idea that perhaps this may not have been the strongest body Ginyu acquired. I'd probably go with the mistranslation route though as it wouldn't really fit Ginyu's disbelief another could surpass him if his current peak wasn't 120k. Also, Ginyu's outburst would suggest he's unaware of Cold's existence. Yet another thing the Broly movie retconned :troll
The Namekian Warriors showing up further damages the later plot hole about why Namekian Fusion wasn't used prior. It was already bad enough that Toriyama didn't consider that a Namekian village's population would sense what was happening and act accordingly, but the chapter in which the technique debuted had been out roughly 4 months at this point. Toei just made the Namekians seem even more incompetent.
Also, we see at Bulma's campsite that there's a dartboard with Yamucha's face on it. You really wouldn't think that this was the woman who was distraught over his death a month ago. Surprising Toei would shit all over Yamucha when considering most of the filler before and after this until the Cell Arc treat him with respect.




Episode 71 - So, Freeza VS Nail and the battle powers involved shows how much power creep was coming into the series. From a narrative standpoint, it wouldn't really matter if their numbers were higher or lower when battle power gaps are highly inconsistent when it comes to the ability to perform certain feats, though it does show the damaging effect of them in how the series was getting to the point where a character's capabilities could only be boiled down to a number.
The filler with Bulma does a decent job making her seem like more than just a background character for this arc, though Toei were pretty lazy in just repurposing the Pteranodon and Wildsaurus for an alien world when considering the creativity they had in previous beasts. Bulma also wonders if she should've hooked up with Goku instead of Yamucha because she's always fighting with the latter (as though she wouldn't end up fighting with Galu). I guess Toriyama couldn't resist shitting on Yamucha. It is fairly in line with Bulma's selfish personality in unable to see that perhaps the problems in their relationship lie with her though.
It seems strange that Toei would have Base Goku deflecting Ginyu's Ki blasts, but we'd later see Base is Galu's strongest form in the Toeiverse :troll2 An additional statement was Goku saying he can't believe Ginyu could generate such power in a wounded state when doing the Body Change, which makes sense as concentrating your Ki enough to swap your soul with someone would probably require heightening it to its limit. Ginyu comments that his new body is even faster despite how low its battle power is by comparison. I guess Goku's body must simply be that fast even without the proper Ki at this point, or maybe Ginyu's previous body just had really bad flight speed. Wouldn't be too hard to imagine if he claimed Butta was the fastest in the universe.
 

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Episodes 72, 73 and 74 - Ginyu's battle power being as low as 23k from having little control over Goku's body is extremely inconsistent with him being able to control his battle power. I'd be fine with him not being initially aware this would happen due to a Saiyan's body likely being far different from those he's possessed before and the anime somewhat alleviates this by having him get far stronger and more used to the body as the fight went on, but the problem lies more in how it took him so long to figure it out. If he can control and suppress his battle power, he should be able to tell how powerful his own body is without relying on a scouter reading, especially considering Freeza was able to calculate what percentage of his full power he was using later on or give an estimate of his 2nd form's power. You could assume he was so deluded by gaining such a strong body that he didn't notice, though that's a major assumption when considering how calculating he was before. The anime improves the fight with his gradual power up and Goku getting more involved, though that alone doesn't save the poor writing of this segment.
Vegeta makes it apparent his Zenkai wasn't an ordinary increase, with the bloat serving not just as a way to plot hax him in a way to cover the bloated gap to Freeza, but also fits well with his explanation that the stronger the opponent, the greater the gains. The anime also adds him making it apparent the reading Jheese got wasn't his full power, which is quite fitting with how he was sure it was him and not Goku who would become a Super Saiyan. On the subject of Vegeta, his actions in hiding in wait to steal the Dragon Balls and making it apparent he could kill everyone if Freeza wasn't a threat does a good job in reminding the audience he's still very much as villainous as Freeza. Him sparing Ginyu due to pitying his life as a frog is a nice moment though in showing even Vegeta has standards towards what he kills and it's fairly cathartic that one who steals bodies to gain power is punished to live in a body they didn't want. Also, there still being soldiers on Freeza's ship further shows Anime Freeza as having prepared for this a lot better than in the manga.
We also see Goku being afraid of needles, a Toei-exclusive trait that will become a running gag, particularly in GT.
 

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Episodes 75 and 76 - Ginyu trying to take away the Dragon Ball is pretty in line with his character. When considering how he never tried to Body Change with Freeza, it goes to show how much loyalty and belief he had in his leader, setting him apart from the other subordinates who's loyalties only lasted as long as their safety did. Vegeta needing to sleep makes sense when even a Saiyan should start feeling great fatigue from 6 days of nonstop fighting. When he wakes up, he states that it should still take Goku several minutes to heal, showing how short of a timeframe all of the battle against Freeza's lower forms lasted. Quite fitting, considering how much was shown to be packed into 5 minutes later on.
Piccolo's reasoning for wanting to wish himself back to life is logical, though less so his second wish. It would've been better had his Namekian roots and what they meant to him personally had been explored more, but I guess him wanting to be in a position where he could save Gohan is in line with his character at least. Also, everyone's so caught up in Piccolo's first plan that they seem to forget Chaozu can't be revived by Earth's DBs. I guess Chaozu's so irrelevant even he forgot about himself. :alex2




Episode 77 - Along with Popo's carpet, Namekian Fusion is perhaps the biggest plot hole of the arc. When your entire population can sense Ki, why did not one single village decide to fuse together when realising what was going on? There was ample time for Tsuno's village, at the very least. This is something that really should've just been treat as an ability exclusive to Piccolo and Kami. Nail also says Piccolo's personality wouldn't be affected by it, but we'll see how long that lasts...
The filler of Kuririn and Gohan dodging Freeza's blasts and Vegeta punching one away before his scuffle with Freeza is pretty damaging when both undermine the surprise at the trio's growth that Gohan and Kuririn soon acknowledge as well as Freeza's shock at how strong Vegeta had become, especially when the part with Kuririn declaring there's nothing they can do to Freeza comes immediately after. We then get Vegeta stating that Zarbon told him Freeza could transform. Yeah, Toei probably regretted omitting that statement at this point.
 

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Episode 78 - The addition of Freeza being disappointed Vegeta didn't continue following him shows how much he valued Vegeta as a subordinate, making the comparison between them all the more noticeable.
The flashback with King Vegeta was really bad. First, it seems pretty dumb that the Saiyan messenger would state they couldn't conquer Planet Tapp for another 3 days due to the lack of a full moon when elite Saiyans can create a Power Ball. King Vegeta at the very least should be capable of such, so he should've headed the charge. No wonder he killed the messenger. It also causes a major retcon/contradiction to the Bardock Special despite using clips from it with Vegeta being on Freeza's ship as opposed to being on another planet, not to mention it'd seem very doubtful Vegeta would remain oblivious to Freeza's machinations with commotion going on inside the ship. It doesn't help that some of the art inconsistencies are so obvious as well. I could accept a few of the previous ones such as Freeza's underwear being purple momentarily in his fight against Nail, but him having his scouter on in one shot only to disappear in the next is really shoddy. There are many parts of the episode in general where the art is poor or inconsistent such as Vegeta momentarily having his previous battle armour or the colour for Kuririn's being off in the same shot, as well as the way Bulma's face is drawn at one point just seeming really off.
Vegeta also acts surprised when hearing Freeza say King Vegeta never got to see the power he's about to show, despite being told Freeza didn't need to transform to kill him in the previous episode...:wtf
Also, 2nd form Freeza presents the ability to just extend his tail to attack as though it's Piccolo's arm. This is a bizarre choice for Toei to do when he'd never display such an ability again.
So yeah, outside of Kuririn being stabbed being a good way to create more tension, pretty much everything in this episode was poorly done.




Episodes 79 and 80 - Gohan becoming so enraged over Kuririn's supposed death shows just how much he means to Gohan as a friend. Up until this point, Gohan's only been shown to get rage boosts so large over his father or Piccolo, so it's nice to see the month with Kuririn has had him come to form such a bond with him.
We get Kaio stating Freeza is capable of destroying the entire universe. Obviously, this isn't meant to be taken literally and has more to do with what he could eventually do. Also, it's good to see Yamucha wishing he was there to help out.
Piccolo's thoughts about Gohan seem mixed. It's a great moment to have him admit Gohan had an affect on him internally that he could never brush away, but it seems like a pretty selective memory for him to describe Gohan as the only person who willingly associated with him when Piccolo's the one who kidnapped him. Then again, Gohan did return to his training by his own volition in the anime.
The padding for Kuririn VS Freeza is pretty damaging. Along with slowing down the already slow pacing that was starting to become problematic for the anime version of this arc, Freeza not being able to constantly stay ahead of Kuririn with ease when he'd casually outsped an enraged Gohan at the end of the previous episode and start of this one is pretty poor, unless we assume Toei forgot Kuririn was just an Earthling and gave him a Zenkai. :troll2 This is a decent scene in the manga with how it showed Kuririn as selfless enough to play the support role as a distraction as well as how deadly his techniques could be in cutting Freeza's tail, but the scaling inconsistencies through the anime's additional scenes damage it overall. I do find it a bit funny how the taunt Kuririn gives Freeza is "come paddle my bum!" Well then, I guess we know what he and #18 get up to behind closed doors. :manabu
 

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Episodes 81 and 82 - Piccolo VS Freeza suffers from a fair bit of padding. Unlike the slow pacing throughout the other parts of the Freeza Arc's third act, however, this is somewhat alleviated with the addition of Nail talking through Piccolo to show the shoe as being on the other foot when it comes to whom's toying with who. The anime adds Dende figuring out Nail fused with Piccolo, which makes it dumb that they'd later retain the scene of Dende figuring it out as though it were a new revelation.
Vegeta trying to escape makes sense considering the fear Freeza has put into him over the years and his opportunistic nature when it comes to what was at this point his life goal of defeating Freeza.
Freeza's reveal he still has two more transformations is where this portion of the arc starts to lose almost all weight, since it all becomes meaningless when Freeza can instantly transform and heal all prior wounds and, overall, his 2nd and 3rd forms serve no point in the narrative beyond bloating the power scale. With the later reveal that his true form is so strong its initial self is but a minuscule percentage of its true power, it makes these forms seem even more worthless when the same gimmick could've been pulled off by having him utilise low percentages of his true form and would've made the Dragon Team's efforts seem more worthwhile. Looking at it in retrospect compared to later villains, Freeza's transformations are also more cheap than Cell or Boo's when he can go into them whenever he wants rather than requiring some catalyst to put in the effort. That said, the 2nd/3rd Freeza portion of the arc is by far its weakest point due to how overall unnecessary it was and how its sequence of events overall just equate to battle power tennis.
We do get Kuririn's 4th mention of lamenting to have not gotten married yet. I'd find the Garlic Jr. filler a more appropriate time to cover this, though it's worth noting how it's a good natural progression of his initial desire to get girls that's matured with his age to make it more than just Yamucha's initial goal being passed onto him.




Episode 83 - Piccolo commending Gohan in how strong he's become is a nice moment in showing his pride as a teacher, though it's difficult to say if it's entirely the result of Piccolo's growth or a bit of Nail's nature slipping its way into him. One thing worth noting is that, despite his prior dependency on Piccolo and looking to him for reinforcement, Gohan isn't at all happy about this praise when his Masenko didn't deliver results. This is a fairly underrated character moment with it showing Gohan as having enough time with others to not rely on Piccolo's support in every situation.
Freeza deducing Gohan may be Raditz's child and only believing there could be the 3 surviving Saiyans under his command is a pretty major retcon when considering not only did he discuss the Saiyan on Earth Vegeta fought to Zarbon, but was also aware he had a son and knew Gohan was from Earth. It's a very forced way of making Goku's arrival more of a surprise to Freeza through unnatural writing.
Dende not wanting to heal Vegeta immediately is a decent character moment for him when reminding us of the crimes Vegeta has done and gives more to Dende's character than just being the healer.
Also, one thing I forgot to mention in my Vegeta character analysis that's worth bringing up here is Vegeta saying Dende's lucky Vegeta didn't decide to kill him for initially refusing to heal him, showing that trait of Vegeta expecting compliance from others without question.
 

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Episodes 84 and 85 - The extensions to Vegeta's battle against Freeza work when considering his final struggle in the manga being just a few missed punches and one large Ki blast made it somewhat anticlimactic and in need of some padding to fit what had been the most central struggle of the arc prior to Goku's involvement. The change from the narrator to Kaio telling the audience about Vegeta's break in resolve works well as it could serve to inform the dead Earthlings of the situation and a nice utilisation of both the narrator and Kaio being voiced by the same seiyuu.
Freeza targeting Dende immediately shows that despite playing around, he was still very much aware of the threat the Saiyans abusing Zenkais could prove. His second target was Gohan which, whilst a small moment, further illustrates this with Gohan having proven himself to be the biggest threat to him at that point. Freeza once more lamenting on how Vegeta was pampered by him and could have remained safe if he hadn't gone against him does a good job in furthering the complex dynamic between the two.
Also, Kaio says this Freeza can destroy the universe as we know it. Not sure how seriously to take this for the anime continuity though, considering things such as SPC destroying a solar system were still treat as a big deal.




Episode 86 - So, Goku getting a far bigger Zenkai than Vegeta did despite less severe injuries does show protagonist favouritism a bit too much. Perhaps you could argue that him being beaten by Vegeta as opposed to by Kuririn or the more steady nature of the healing chamber helped, though by that logic Gohan should've gotten a godly Zenkai after 2nd form Freeza beat him and/or Vegeta's post-Senzu Zenkai shouldn't have been so large respectively. Piccolo stating Goku is incomparable to how he was on Earth seems like an odd statement. His reference for that was Galu's 5k reading, so everyone there is on a completely different plateau to that.
It would be surprising for Freeza to still clearly remember Bardock, but not unlikely when this was the last significant thing to happen before such a strong memory as him destroying Planet Vegeta. Vegeta's death is a scene that makes this a good episode as not only does it break down the layers of Vegeta's character to show him as a man who mainly wanted freedom from Freeza (even if for his own nefarious gains) but also has him serve to set up the eventual Super Saiyan transformation well. Vegeta's previous actions and constant declarations at Kakarrot being too kind hearted to become a Super Saiyan help show the difference between them that ironically made Goku more suitable to achieve the form with how different he was from the other Saiyans due to his upbringing. Still, there is also some truth towards what Vegeta said as combining this with primal rage is what eventually allowed Goku to tap into such power.
 

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Episodes 87, 88 and 89 - Before the battle begins, Piccolo presents a desire to fight Goku in the future, showing Piccolo was still confident of reaching such a level of power. For the fight itself, the anime makes a lot of good additions to the fight sequence in both the choreography and how the environment is used to benefit tension and strategies in the battle such as the volcanic explosion, with the underwater tactics from the manga also helping add to it. It is a pity that the more interesting sequences were relegated to the warm up part of the battle though. As for spending so long on a warm up in general, I don't see it as a flaw since with senzu, conserving stamina would be important as it was in most prior battles.
Freeza says he's surprised someone could surpass Ginyu. Some people point to this as an inconsistency, though it makes sense when Freeza is being cordial as opposed to with the prior fighters where his irritation at them was present. Freeza also makes mention of Goku being the only one to hurt him at this level aside from his father, with this reveal seeming to prove Toriyama indeed had full intent of going past the Freeza Arc and introducing Cold at some point.
Goku also says he would've died if he'd fallen into the lava, showing Ki growth isn't enough to have complete heat resistance. This is something that will remain pretty consistent in the anime, considering you have SS2 Gohan believing he could kill Broly by putting him in lava in Movie 10 or it taking SS4 power to endure the heat of the sun.
On Earth, we get Roshi managing to stop Yajirobe from escaping. Obviously, Toei knew about Roshi's Manly GAINZ even back in the 90s. :panties It's a good idea that they had the support cast doing something rather than sitting around, though the priority of Chichi hoping Gohan's keeping up with his studies rather than being concerned for his dangerous situation is a prime case of Toei mischaracterising Chichi.
We also get the start of the Bulma-Ginyu filler. It wasn't a bad idea in premise, though it does eventually make things questionable with Bulma having never seen Freeza in Z and Ginyu not being stuck as a frog from thereon damages the catharsis to his character somewhat.
 

Captain Cadaver

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Episode 90 - This is where you can really see anime exclusive material damaging the arc. When Freeza mentions the stubbornness of Saiyans, he mentions Bardock despite having never learnt his name in the special (Zarbon referring to the Saiyans who captured Kanassa as being some no-name low-classes). This is the first inkling of a problem that would come with Bardock's treatment in material after his special in that making him out to be a special and important figure goes completely against the point of his story. You then have Base Goku taking far more attacks from 50% Freeza than in the manga despite only using Kaio-ken x10 in the last few minutes of the episode which, is not only a missed opportunity as Toei's staff could've easily included scenes of him using Kaio-ken prior, but makes Goku's durability seem heavily plot-armoured by comparison to his manga self.
This is also where you can see why the Bulma-Ginyu filler is so reviled by the community. Gohan not immediately figuring out what happened when seeing the Ginyu frog present and "Bulma" having shown enough red flags for Gohan and Kuririn to have pointed out her weird behaviour makes one of the most logically sound members of the main cast seem like a complete idiot, especially when he so quickly figured out that the one in Goku's body wasn't his father prior.




Episode 91 - Thankfully, the Ginyu filler is put to rest pretty quickly. One interesting thing it mentions is how Piccolo can't move when Ginyu's Body Change targets him, which is a pretty good addition that makes sense with how confident he was in it not failing prior. Also, the anime makes it apparent Bulma was unable to see Goku or Freeza throughout her time there, which at least avoids a plot hole from forming later on in the anime.
The Goku VS Freeza fight has the addition of Goku having some resolve boost that breaks him out of Freeza's hold when underwater. This is a conflicting piece of filler as whilst it makes sense for Goku's desire to protect his friends and family when being the last line of defence against Freeza, it being brought to the extent it gave him some adrenaline boost is somewhat damaging to his characterisation when an appealing quality of Goku's character compared to many Shonen protagonists then and now is that he didn't have to rely on any sort of power of friendship or resolve boosts to overcome a challenge (SSJ is a rage-induced power up and doesn't count) and fought primarily using his own strength beyond last resorts like the Genki-Dama or the occasional teamwork. The addition of such a scene does make him feel like more of the same when it comes to Shonen leads and, whilst I don't fully agree with Toriyama's later take that Toei made Goku overly heroic, I can see his point for this scene when it makes Goku seem like yet another bland Shonen mc. Moreover, it doesn't really work in the context of DB when emotions affecting power and abilities is something meant to be exclusive to Gohan. Fortunately, the self-determination on his own power with the Kaio-ken x20 following it just about saves the scene.




Episode 92 - Freeza's rage in being so damaged and his iconic "That really hurt!" line following it is pretty good in showing the necessary character flaw of Freeza in him underestimating those below him and allowing it to be his undoing as will soon be the case, something also foreshadowed by Goku's advice a few episodes prior about Freeza leaving himself too open because of his overconfidence in his own strength. Him having never been hurt so much further shows his pampered and complacent nature that, again, was the main thing that allowed him to be defeated.
The filler of Goku hallucinating Vegeta talking to him is pretty bad for several reasons. Him telling Vegeta he doesn't consider himself a Saiyan is a direct contradiction of how he accepted Vegeta's Saiyan pride upon his death and said as much in his declaration before fighting Freeza, making this some pretty blatant character regression. Alongside that, you have Vegeta mentioning Bardock as well as both him and King Vegeta appearing in the vision. Yes, Goku did have some psychic link to Bardock's final plea in the TV Special, but that was before he lost his memories. Overall, this filler scene is terrible and nonsensical, feeling more like Goku went on some acid trip rather than whatever resolve boost it was meant to be. It says a lot when the Abridged version of the scene makes somewhat more sense.
Goku mentioning how he didn't want to use the Genki-Dama in case it destroyed the planet from one single miscalculation reminds us how much of a desperation move it was and why its use within the main series was so limited, which is a good thing. A shame Toei conveniently forgot about this in the movies and GT. :troll2
 

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Episodes 93 and 94 - The stall for the Genki-Dama is damaged by padding in the anime. The additional hits Goku and Piccolo take from Freeza in the former and latter episodes respectively despite Freeza making it clear he's pissed off enough at this point to want to kill them damages the sequence of the battle. During this we have Piccolo gaining Gohan and Kuririn's Ki via Ki transfer. It's a fairly subtle display of the abilities Piccolo has picked up from Kaio's training. It's a shame that, bar Goku giving some Ki to Freeza, this ability would go unused from hereon despite it being something that could've proven useful when Gohan was injured by SPC.
The Ginyu filler on Kaio's starts to become nonsensical here with Kaio emerging from the house and the group's arrival being a new revelation despite him being outside and seeing them in the previous episode. This is why you shouldn't have separate directors for the same anime-exclusive storyline. Then you have Kaio telling ReaCoom that the Ginyu Tokusentai wouldn't be able to lay a finger on him. So, is the filler trying to imply that Kaio sparred with the humans to get similar training GAINZ? That his skills as a martial artist are so great he can beat them despite the power difference? That Toei completely forgot this guy is weaker than Nappa? I guess we'll never know as Toei never bothers to address Kaio's strength or capabilities in martial arts again. Despite it being questionable that the humans could get so strong in so little time even with more potential for sparring than Goku had, I'd say it's fine since it at least provides a moment for the humans' training to actually seem like it meant something, and the last time it'd do so outside of other filler and Tenshinhan's Shin Kikoho.




Episode 95 - One thing that seems really off during the heartfelt reunion prior to Freeza's re-emergence is Piccolo laughing along with the rest. It's completely out of character for him, especially given his stoic expression in the manga during this scene.
The battle with the Ginyus on Kaio's ends. The final part of Chaozu defeating Ghurd shows how much of a missed opportunity their match was when neither of them utilised their psychic abilities to fight each other at all.
It seems strange the anime would change Freeza targeting Piccolo to him targeting Goku and Piccolo getting in the way. Maybe they wanted to show how much Piccolo has changed, though that seems a little hard to swallow. Kuririn's death and Goku's Super Saiyan transformation pack a lot of weight when, at that point, the audience had no real reason to believe Kuririn could be revived again and along with being the payoff that had been built up the whole arc, the execution of the Super Saiyan scene is done very well through Nozawa's voice acting, the great art and little details such as the Oozaru roar mixed with Goku's scream that would become synonymous with ascending to new levels of Super Saiyan in the anime later on. We also see through Goku's words how much of a different person this transformation of rage his made him with how he orders Gohan to leave whilst he still has some rationality, showing how much danger the form could have proved to friend and foe alike had he not controlled it after the fight.




Episode 96 - One great bit of filler material here is Roshi pondering on Goku's constant growth in power ending up being a double-edged sword. Despite being a small filler scene, it foreshadows and encapsulates not only Goku allowing Freeza to go to 100% a few episodes later due to wanting to prove his power and humiliate Freeza, but also foreshadows many moments in the future in which how Goku used his power would prove to do more harm than good such as not using SS3 against Majin Vegeta or not killing Boo when he had the chance out of a mix of wanting the next generation to prove themselves and possibly not realising he could until his time was close to running out.
Most of Goku's dialogue with Freeza in this episode is pretty good. Of course there's his speech about being the Saiyan from Earth, pure heart awoken by rage, etc. at the end which perfectly sums up how he was the one able to become a Super Saiyan, but there's also his response to Freeza reminding him the Saiyans weren't innocent and Goku saying that's why they were destroyed as well as saying he'll destroy Freeza in turn when the tyrant reminds him he was the one who killed the Saiyans is just a well done back and forth.




Episode 97 - The scene showing Freeza's soldiers is a pretty interesting filler one. A member of Kewie's race mentions that Freeza wiped out most of their race whilst another of the species reminds the soldiers his and all their races/clans serving under Freeza will be elevated to greater status as the empire continues to grow. This does a good job at showing why so many would follow Freeza out of more than just fear, particularly after his death such as in FnF as it would be quite a good system to be in if you were one of the ones on top. As cruel and unfair of a tyrant as Freeza is, at least he has some acknowledgement of the necessities of meritocracy (so long as someone doesn't become a threat to him, at least).
Freeza striking the planet's core is a move that adds a great deal of tension to the fight in a way not replicated the same before or after due to it making the entire planet a hazardous battlefield with a time limit to boot. Thus, we begin the infamous 5 minutes on Namek...with just short of 10 episodes to fill it :toei
Freeza's hesitation in destroying the planet outright and holding back the attack does call into question his whole thing about saying he goes into lower forms as to better control his power, though does add to it somewhat by how a full powered attack enveloping him whilst destroying the planet may have indeed proven fatal.
 

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Episodes 98, 99 and 100 - Goku's reasoning for wanting Freeza to go 100% is a strong character moment for him in him wanting to not only kill Freeza, but humiliate him in a fair battle for what he did to Kuririn. It shows how much Kuririn's death meant to him as well as the cruel side to Goku's controlled yet obvious anger that makes his initial use of Super Saiyan an interesting transformation.
Kami states that the Dragon Balls can only revive people who have died within the year. Yet another reason why FnF was a mistake :troll However, the humans on Kaio's are fine with waiting another year to be revived. It makes sense for them to not be aware of the limitation, though you'd think Kaio would inform them of it. Perhaps he was banking on the Namekian Dragon Balls being revived by a new Grand Elder. There's also a nice scene of Tenshinhan choosing to stay if Chaozu can't be revived, showing the bond between them. It makes you wonder if Toriyama may have wanted to use this as a way to write them and maybe Yamucha out of the story before either editorial meddling or his own desire to have a happy ending made him change his mind.
Bulma trying to convince Gohan to leave Piccolo on Namek is pretty dumb when it'd mean the Dragon Balls would be gone and all their efforts would be for naught. Then again, it's in line with her characterisation of ignoring anything else for the sake of her personal safety.

Gohan returning to fight Freeza when believing Goku to be dead is a nice moment as his selfless reason for doing so shows good rationality and development on his part. On that subject, it's time to talk about Gohan's character arc up to this point that would inform his seeming change in motivations during the Cell fight. In his developmental years, he got kidnapped by his uncle, learned his father died, was kidnapped by Piccolo and forced into a life or death situation with the knowledge two Saiyans were coming to kill him and everyone he knew in a year's time. His training under Piccolo could be described as no less than physical and mental abuse that didn't really teach him much and then this master is killed by Nappa. He also watches many of his father's friends die beforehand and is later witness to his father being put into a critical condition by Vegeta. He watches Dodoria slaughter many villagers on Namek, gets his neck broken by ReaCoom, sees Freeza kill the closest thing he has to a friend in his age range (aside from Piccolo, technically), sees Freeza put Piccolo in a critical condition and kill his only other friend Kuririn. Along with this, Goku's Super Saiyan transformation has him essentially tell Gohan to get out of his way or he may kill him. With all that, it's a wonder he doesn't suffer from Complex PTSD, with it being pretty realistic he wouldn't want to let his rage take over or really commit his life to fighting.

The time it takes for Goku to get up from the Nova Strike does show how bad the pacing is for this part of the anime. I'm fine with the fight itself lasting so long when considering how fast Goku and Freeza should be (especially anime-wise where Kaio can't keep track of their movements), but the POV of other characters and their conversations being inserted into the anime such as Gohan returning to the fight or many of the conversations later on Earth in the anime really makes it hard to believe that this is all taking place in less than 5 minutes.
 

Keedounan

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Captain Cadaver said:
The time it takes for Goku to get up from the Nova Strike does show how bad the pacing is for this part of the anime. I'm fine with the fight itself lasting so long when considering how fast Goku and Freeza should be (especially anime-wise where Kaio can't keep track of their movements), but the POV of other characters and their conversations being inserted into the anime such as Gohan returning to the fight or many of the conversations later on Earth in the anime really makes it hard to believe that this is all taking place in less than 5 minutes.

Then again, Freeza doesn't have a watch. :troll

Seriously, though, this thread is among the more interesting you've made. I commend your efforts and patience. :nice
 

Future Warrior

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Keedounan said:
Seriously, though, this thread is among the more interesting you've made. I commend your efforts and patience. :nice

Among the more interesting threads in this forum period. Unfortunately most would rather discuss powerscaling, versus battles, and battle powers. A damn shame if you ask me.
 

ahill1

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The fillers are enriching but slowing the pace a little to the point it damages some instances. Still, I enjoyed all the scenes involving Vegeta and those of Freeza's empire, with the Vegeta vs Guld one giving more meaning to the Ginyu conflict and the scenes of Zarbon and Dodoria mocking Vegeta helping to emphasize how indignant Vegeta was with the whole situation.

I disliked how short the Freeza Vs Piccolo fight seemed in the manga, but I also felt the way they dragged it in the anime was unnecessary... A middle ground would be best.
 

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Episode 101 - Goku's iconic "You mean Kuririn?!" line certainly hammers home the rage he has over the situation with some great voice acting from Nozawa, with the pose Goku does during this being perhaps more iconic than its manga counterpart. What really helps the scene is Freeza's response of "Uncaring Saiyans? What a joke!" in further driving in why Goku was the one to become a Super Saiyan or ascend to such heights in general rather than any other Saiyan.
Goku being able to telepathically communicate with Kaio and interrupt his conversation with the Grand Elder is a part I'm mixed about in both manga and anime. Goku has shown some telepathic abilities and should have a great boost to his attributes from becoming a Super Saiyan, though this skill for the most part does come out of nowhere when considering how what telepathy he'd acquired thus far had been pretty limited. Perhaps you could assume he has a natural communication with Kaio as a result of his training with him akin to how Bardock had a small telepathic link to Kakarrot in the anime, though all this could've done with more explanation. In any case, the anime having Goku do this whilst being attacked by Freeza does help further show his excellent battle senses and skill.
The third wish being left until now as well as the circumstances to create a loophole to revive the Grand Elder temporarily for it fits seamlessly into the narrative to a point you have to wonder if the normally improvisational Toriyama did plan this plot point in advance. I don't consider Kaio's hypothesis being true as too big of a stretch when considering we already saw Roshi could be revived as one of Piccolo Daimao's victims despite the circumstances of Daimao causing his death being just as indirect. On the subject of the wish made to Shen Long in the prior episode though, it's worth noting it was to revive those killed by Freeza and his men on Namek, suggesting it didn't revive the others they had killed within the year. Considering what we're shown in the anime, that actually makes Kewie the villain with the most permanent kills of this arc or at least tied with Vegeta due to him killing off most of the inhabitants of the planet the group of kids were from. I guess his talk about being rivals wasn't all bluster. :troll2
Speaking of Vegeta, him seeing Goku's Super Saiyan form is problematic filler. Not only had the chapters in which he expressed shock at Gohan saying Goku had transformed into one and him initially being in denial about Trunks being one until Goku transformed already been published at the time this episode would've been made, but both instances are retained in the anime later on.




Episode 102 - Unlike most of the other cases of prior footage being reused, the scene with Piccolo reminiscing on his history with Goku serves a strong purpose with his words at the end of having wanted to have stayed on Namek to fight with Goku. It helps show that Piccolo still retains some of his initial goals whilst having grown in a manner he's no longer the one dedicating his life to killing Goku, but rather simply wanting a rematch they never got to have and how dissatisfied he was when he got his goal of killing Goku. Whoever directed this episode certainly knew Piccolo's character well.
Speaking of characterisation being on point, there are some interesting things to note about Vegeta with him opportunistically declaring he'll rule the universe once Goku and Freeza are dead. This is far different to his manga self where he doesn't seem to act out, most likely due to a desire to see the Super Saiyan that defeated Freeza. The anime does present some important dialogue towards Vegeta's goals with Piccolo telling him the Earth Dragon Balls would be inert for another year which would prevent him from using them and we'd see in a later part of filler in an upcoming episode Gohan could put up a decent fight against him with Piccolo seeming to command enough presence to talk Vegeta out of doing anything rash, suggesting Vegeta was wary of trying to go 2 on 1 against them in both continuities. That said, Toei managed to work around the pieces they'd taken away from Vegeta's character motivations to reach the same result in a believable manner which I must commend them on. Vegeta does say he believes he should've become stronger after having been brought back from the dead. With him not showing such later on it'd be natural to believe he was just misinformed.
There isn't too much to say about the filler additions to Goku VS Freeza, though some individual shots in the battle are really cool to the point of being as iconic to the battle as many moments of the manga such as Goku and Freeza's forearms clashing, their grapple on the ground and (my personal favourite) the scale of their power being shown at full force with Goku punching Freeza's Death Ball into orbit and the stray blast still having enough energy to obliterate a nearby planet. It's the kind of high scale that, combined with the tension of the ticking clock and the natural hazards of Namek such as rivers of lava make it such a defining fight in the series. It probably also ranks as the second best fictional fight to take place near erupting masses of lava, and if you don't know what the #1 spot goes to...
tenor.gif
Speaking of comparing those two fights near lava, you could also say the setting for this climactic fight has some narrative relevance. Much like the planet exploding, Goku's Super Saiyan state is an explosion of his anger needing to be released and, as the planet is collapsing, Freeza's ego is also slowly being damaged as his inferior power and depleting stamina would soon leave him at Goku's mercy.
At the end of the episode, Freeza declares there's about 1 minute remaining until Namek explodes. Considering Bulma reaffirmed Namek would explode in 3 minutes in the episode after Freeza said so, he's probably not off by much. I guess Toei really took the saying of moments seeming like hours in times of tension to the utmost extreme for this fight. :toei
 
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