Did Gohan and Vegeta use SSJ2 against Super #17 and Yi Xing Long?

[Papasmurf]

We know that GT gives no love to the SSJ2 form in general, even compared to the Z movies (which is one of the few things Super did better). But would you say that considering the SSJ2 form is Gohan and Vegeta's full power in GT other than the one time Vegeta achieved SSJ4 briefly, they probably resorted to the form in these two fights?

I'd have to say that they did, especially considering that Gohan and Vegeta have a more shaded in, intense style of aura that's usually reserved for SSJ2 against Super #17, and Vegeta briefly showed a lightning aura when powering up against Yi Xing Long in episode 63. Gohan additionally says that he's never been enraged at the bottom of his heart like this before against Super #17, so the SSJ2 form being used there makes sense (not to mention he has a single bang in that scene, which tends to be an indicator of SSJ2 in Toei works).

 

[Captain Cadaver]

According to the Perfect Files, SS2 was only used briefly by Galu when going SS3 against Baby and during the opening due to SS2 "not providing a huge difference from Super Saiyan", though anyone who's seen the Cell Games knows how bullshit that statement is. Gohan's statement as well as general common sense would point to he and Vegeta using SS2 against Super #17. Against Yi Xing Long, it can be argued that Vegeta only used SSJ when considering his fatigue, though I'd have no problem with the idea of him going SS2 for reasons you outlined.

 

[Papasmurf]

According to the Perfect Files, SS2 was only used briefly by Galu when going SS3 against Baby and during the opening due to SS2 "not providing a huge difference from Super Saiyan", though anyone who's seen the Cell Games knows how bullshit that statement is

I think that's probably just an excuse by Toei to cover for them tending to forget that the SSJ2 form even exists in GT, not to mention that same entry also said that Galu barely ever used SSJ2, using it only against Majin Vegeta and the GT opening or some stupid shit like that when Galu even displayed the form not only in Z filler against Kid Boo, but even in GT when fighting Meta-Rild.

Against Yi Xing Long, it can be argued that Vegeta only used SSJ when considering his fatigue, though I'd have no problem with the idea of him going SS2 for reasons you outlined.

What about Gohan? It'd make sense for him to be at full power when pumping Galu up with as much energy as he could, not to mention Toei works after the Cell arc show him being able to use the SSJ2 form freely (such as against Broly in M10).

 

[Captain Cadaver]

I'd probably say he would have used it in that scene, though Gohan's use of it is more arguable. We're told in the Perfect Files that he only regained SSJ because of keeping up with his training, so it would seem arguable whether or not he'd broken through his limits by enough to use SS2 freely again. Then again, you do have those involved with GT talking about how Gohan's appearance in the Super #17 Arc is meant to convey a change in him and a return as an active fighter, so I'd probably side with him being SS2 during the more intense battles more so than not.

 

[Papasmurf]

Yeah, it appears that despite GT nerfing his performance significantly compared to Goku and Vegeta, Gohan was supposed to return to becoming a warrior after the Baby arc (which is possibly why he was wearing a gi for the first time since the Boo arc in the ED arc). Toei really should have explained Galu's multipliers for his SSJ forms lowered after achieving SSJ4 and that Vegeta retained the power he gained from Baby so Gohan being weaker than them makes sense.

 

[Captain Cadaver]

It's also worth noting that Gohan's return to fighting is validated by Oob treating the idea of Super #17 tanking his Kamehameha as unbelievable, though that makes little sense when Oob can still oneshot someone Base Gohan was struggling with before. Maybe Gohan was finally given the same Toei hax benefit as his dad in GT of getting a huge boost from just getting slightly beat up.

 

[Papasmurf]

Base M2 Galu > UDB arc SSJ Galu 2 2

But yeah jokes aside, Gohan should've just turned SSJ before firing that Kamehameha and then gone SSJ2 due to rage after being beaten up by S17 for a bit. Toei's obsession with making half the fights be in base form really fucks the movies and GT continuity.

 

[Captain Cadaver]

I think the meta reason for Toei's obsession with Base Saiyan fights probably has to do with colouring and animation. Back when the anime was hand-drawn and featured more variation in tones, it would be far easier to get the tones and colours right on black hair rather than on the lighter and more vibrant hair of the SSJ forms, thus making things easier if they had the Saiyans fight in base.

 

[Papasmurf]

Well, in Toei works the SSJ auras usually go down in a few seconds or after taking a hit regardless of whether or not the character is at full power though, which essentially just makes animating them the same as any other character with brighter hair. Not to mention the movies all have far more budget than the average episode, yet we still see antilogical base Saiyan fights in almost all of them. The fact that Fusion Reborn, a movie with some of the most advanced CG animation for the mid-90s era it was produced in, still had Galu fight Janenba in base tells me there may be more than just reasons like animation budget for Toei's base Saiyan wank.

 

[SSJ2]

According to the Perfect Files, SS2 was only used briefly by Galu when going SS3 against Baby and during the opening due to SS2 "not providing a huge difference from Super Saiyan", though anyone who's seen the Cell Games knows how bullshit that statement is. Gohan's statement as well as general common sense would point to he and Vegeta using SS2 against Super #17. Against Yi Xing Long, it can be argued that Vegeta only used SSJ when considering his fatigue, though I'd have no problem with the idea of him going SS2 for reasons you outlined.

Isn't this kind of invalidated by the fact that Galu used SSJ2 briefly against Rild?

As for the OP, I definitely think they used SSJ2, but only briefly.

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

I always assume they do, but it's more out of going down the logical path rather than the :toei one.

 

[Papasmurf]

Well, in the Z movies Gohan and Vegeta used SSJ2 without lightning in the post-Bojack films. Easy to just assume the same thing here when there's no lightning due to :toei faggotry.

 

[Captain Cadaver]

Isn't this kind of invalidated by the fact that Galu used SSJ2 briefly against Rild?

Whilst he had lightning briefly, that can be quite inconsistent with Toei considering they extended the time SSJ Vegetto had lightning or offered it to other regular SSJs, plus they can even be inconsistent with the notable difference in hairstyles (eg. Galu going an entire episode in his fight with Majin Vegeta sporting his regular SSJ hairstyle).

 

[Papasmurf]

Isn't this kind of invalidated by the fact that Galu used SSJ2 briefly against Rild?

Whilst he had lightning briefly, that can be quite inconsistent with Toei considering they extended the time SSJ Vegetto had lightning or offered it to other regular SSJs, plus they can even be inconsistent with the notable difference in hairstyles (eg. Galu going an entire episode in his fight with Majin Vegeta sporting his regular SSJ hairstyle).

Goku clearly showed his SSJ2 hairstyle against Rild:

It also reverted back to his regular SSJ hairstyle after he powered down. It's clearly intended to be the SSJ2 form. Meanwhile, him having lightning against Redjic is invalidated by him clearly having his SSJ hairstyle, making it no different than how he had lightning when he powered up against Paikuhan.

There's also the SSJ2 form being clearly recognizable when Galu cycles through the forms just before fighting Super Baby:

https://youtu.be/EUh1NK2un7Q?t=50

Galu may only use SSJ2 for momentary bursts in GT because of :toei logic, but he clearly uses the form (in the Baby arc at least).