Did normal states get retconed in DB-Super?

[Fantastische Hure]

post-FnF I mean? They don't seem as powerful. Not counting the new movie.

 

[Mystic]

I think so. Super and what comes after primarily exists as a marketing excuse to create more toys and video games and other merch, and since base is old and boring they need more transformations more often.

 

[Fantastische Hure]

I think so. Super and what comes after primarily exists as a marketing excuse to create more toys and video games and other merch, and since base is old and boring they need more transformations more often.

True, they couldn't even keep true to their word that SSJ will be the only thing used after that. We've seen SSJ2 & 3 countless times since.

 

[Papasmurf]

The retcon was that SSJ2 gets used constantly despite Toriyama seemingly only intending to use SSJ and SSJB originally. Even Vegeta using SSJG against Black was a Toyotaro addition, apparently.

 

[Fantastische Hure]

But SSJ-God was used in the movie too which was I think entirely written by AT.

 

[Papasmurf]

But SSJ-God was used in the movie too which was I think entirely written by AT.

Yeah but that's after he worked with Toyotaro in the manga for 3 years lol

The anime which abides by the same overall plot as the manga (that AT wrote) never used SSJG until ToP

 

[Fantastische Hure]

But it did use SSJ2 and SSJ3 which were just called powered-up versions of SSJ by AT.

So does that mean every fodder character is just that high now or that they've scaled back since the other SSJ forms are back and their regular states aren't made a big deal out of. For example I can't see Ribrianne take FnF Final Form Freeza in any way.

 

[Papasmurf]

SSJ Caulifla beat up final form Freeza so it seems even fodders are that strong now, esp since Freeza got stronger between the FnF and ToP arcs.

 

[Fantastische Hure]

What about their normal state? Does that mean they are > FNF Normal State + SSJ forms boost? Also didn't Final Form Freeza beat-up SSJ Cabba?

 

[Papasmurf]

Golden Freeza beat up SSJ Cabba and SSJ2 cabba in the anime.

 

[Fantastische Hure]

I thought it was SSJ Cabba getting beat by Final Form and then when Cabba transformed to SSJ2, Freeza went Gold.

 

[VampireWicked]

post-FnF I mean? They don't seem as powerful. Not counting the new movie.

No Base state didn't get redone, the gains aren't that large when they're using higher transformations all the time.

 

[Fantastische Hure]

post-FnF I mean? They don't seem as powerful. Not counting the new movie.

No Base state didn't get redone, the gains aren't that large when they're using higher transformations all the time.

So SSJ is less than a 2x boost now?

 

[Papasmurf]

I thought it was SSJ Cabba getting beat by Final Form and then when Cabba transformed to SSJ2, Freeza went Gold.

[youtube]b8o-SsL7VxM[/youtube]

 

[Fantastische Hure]

I misremembered then. Makes no sense though that Cabba didn't transform.

What about the boosts for SSJ transformations? Zamasu said something like their power went up by tens of folds or something. Does that mean God Base times 10-something?

 

[Papasmurf]

It honestly seems to depend on the situation. When Galu fought Zamasu it was portrayed as tens of times (it was SSJ2 not SSJ tho), then when Galu and Vegeta fought against Jiren in base SSJ and onward seemed like much smaller boosts.

 

[Fantastische Hure]

So basically base times plot. :toei :toei :toei

 

[VampireWicked]

It really does seems like plot dictates Base & Base seems like at this point it should be extremely powerful.
Even I think so, & I thought the statement made by Beerus of 100% Frieza > Base Saiyans was complete garbage!
But it's not, thinking about it Beerus's statement makes sense.

Goku: 300万
Super Saiyan Goku: 1億5000万
Freeza 50%: 6000万
Freeza 100%: 1 億2000万

“万” (man) is the kanji for 10 thousand, while “億” (oku) represents 100 million. If you do the math, “300 man” is 3 million and “1 oku, 5 thousand man” is 150 million. It is easy to see how someone not too experienced with the Japanese number system could make a mistake converting them, especially since all the previous battle powers in this section of Daizenshuu 7 are written purely in Arabic numerals, with no kanji or mathematical conversion required.

https://www.kanzenshuu.com/battle-power/databook/#d7-23​

Goku's Base on Namke fighting Frieza was 3Million, SuperSaiyan is a 50x multiplier.
Over the years Goku/Vegeta would need to get 50x more powerful in Base to match Final Form Frieza but always spamming SuperSaiyan etc, the gains for Base not to mention overall is slow.

Think of it like an RPG.
At level 20 defeating a level 1 boss isn't getting a noticeable experience point boost as it did when you were level 1.

The zenkai Boost gained in the TournamentOfPower from switching through transformations & Base would've gave them a massive increase in Base, more so than relying more on transformations.

I believe if Vegeta/Goku used Base more then transformations then I think they could gain more & faster than Frieza did.
RageBoost/Broly is proof of the possibilities.

post-FnF I mean? They don't seem as powerful. Not counting the new movie.

No Base state didn't get redone, the gains aren't that large when they're using higher transformations all the time.

So SSJ is less than a 2x boost now?

No multipliers remain the same.
Multipliers multiply whatever is there.

If a PowerLevel is 9trilion or 9 a multiplier multiplies whtever the PowerLevel is.

 

[Let's Go Fearless!]

I don't think Toei retcon the Saiyans base form at least not entirely. We still got to see Goku dealing initial Hit while in his base form and the majority of his fight on ToP.

Their base form are still strong for a warm-up fight along with SSjin/2 as well. (Ex: Goku Vs Gohan) SSjin3 was shown only once and that was only to displayed it to Caulifla and Kale which agoku told them that it's a flawed form but that's it.

 

[theallpowerfulpuipui]

Now GT base was boss, it was like 11% weaker than SSJ4 after the Baby saga.