Did Super justify it's own existence?

[Pocket-Gog~]

In your opinion, Super the newest continuation of Dragon Ball, did it justify it's own existence? For you did this continuation of Dragon ball justified it's existence with what it did?

 

[Fantastische Hure]

Not really. There was no reason for it to exist from a story-telling point-of-view, it was merely created to rake in more cash which it did, so I guess it served its purpose in Toei's eyes. It didn't really add anything that really changed much, other than more content. A lot of it kind-of bad.

Even the Future Trunks Saga I could do without, even-though there were some good moments too.

 

[Papasmurf]

No it did not. I wasn't fond of most of the homages, and the plots all inevitably fell off a cliff. It can be entertaining enough on occasion, although considering it's even worse than a kinda-low-budget anime from the 90s (Z) and arguably even worse than GT in some aspects, Super's positives in the end didn't mean much.

 

[Captain Cadaver]

The entire series is built upon retconning a lot of events from the end of the manga in order to attempt to justify it's existence, so that's a no from me.

Even a GT sequel or an anime for the lore of DBO would seem far more promising spinoffs/cashgrabs than Super.

 

[VampireWicked]

In your opinion, Super the newest continuation of Dragon Ball, did it justify it's own existence? For you did this continuation of Dragon ball justified it's existence with what it did?

YES! Absolutely.

 

[Pocket-Gog~]

In your opinion, Super the newest continuation of Dragon Ball, did it justify it's own existence? For you did this continuation of Dragon ball justified it's existence with what it did?

YES! Absolutely.

Elaborate on why.

 

[Classic Adamas]

It was so obviously a cash-grab.

And it sucks.

 

[withheldforprivacy]

In my heart, Dragon Ball Multiverse will always be the rightful continuation of Dragon Ball/ Dragon Ball Z.

 

[Boo Brand Milk]

Everything it set out to do, to improve upon GT, it failed.

- Beerus is a lame character, the convoluted polytheism gets even worse.
- The first three sagas purely exist to waste your time. The 4th is a fan fiction, and the 5th returns to the form, wasting your time.
- GT had some great character moments, Super had twice as many episodes and half the moments
- the biggest problem with GT was the power scaling (made it harder to believe it occurred after Z) and the cringe inducing plots, somehow Super is twice as guilty of this crime.
- Teargas and bullets > :1down

Now here's what's good about Super:
- the elitists fans, as always, are WRONG. Your multipliers are idiotic. How many times will IT take , :toei , and others paid to create Dragon Ball (who already lost their virginity) to contradict you before you stfu
- even with a fake Broly, Broly still isn't canon
- Future Trunks and Zamasu should have been a disaster but I just fucking love it.
- Fourstar Goku is canon now, he's an even bigger loser than Peter Griffin
- "I hope we don't turn into Dragon poop"
- New Dragonball is new Dragon Ball, I feel privileged to have experienced it.

 

[VampireWicked]

In your opinion, Super the newest continuation of Dragon Ball, did it justify it's own existence? For you did this continuation of Dragon ball justified it's existence with what it did?

YES! Absolutely.

Elaborate on why.

Because To Me SUPER took it to a new level with the inclusion of deities & not just mortals.

I even liked Gohan for an episode so-far, & i totally HATE Gohan as a character.

DragonBall SUPER has that sense of something on a grander scale & not that it's just another bad guy threatening the earth like DragonBall Z or GT.
SUPER involved the entire universe, not just Universe 7 but Universes 2, 3, 4, 6, 9, 10, 11 in a chance for not simply surviving but simply existing.

What makes it better was that the majority involved were heroes willing to do almost anything to exist.
And to me SUPER stands out for that, it justifies its continuation as i would love to see other universes explored while acknowledging Universe 7.

 

[Pocket-Gog~]

Because To Me SUPER took it to a new level with the inclusion of deities & not just mortals.

Dragon Ball introduced deities in the Saiyan Saga.

I even liked Gohan for an episode so-far, & i totally HATE Gohan as a character.

How did it make you like Gohan?

DragonBall SUPER has that sense of something on a grander scale & not that it's just another bad guy threatening the earth like DragonBall Z or GT. SUPER involved the entire universe, not just Universe 7 but Universes 2, 3, 4, 6, 9, 10, 11 in a chance for not simply surviving but simply existing.

Universal threats in Dragon Ball have been a thing for awhile, Cell's goals were essentially to have fun while destroying the universe, and Boo's goals were pure mindless destruction of the universe, Super has only continued the trend. And? What has Super done to make us care for the other universes? They're meaningless, unexplored, we have nothing to care about them.

What makes it better was that the majority involved were heroes willing to do almost anything to exist.
And to me SUPER stands out for that, it justifies its continuation as i would love to see other universes explored while acknowledging Universe 7.

But, here's the thing. No other universe besides U7 has been explored, they're just there. Super did nothing with this potential, and instead squandered it, these universes won't be explored as Super is ending soon.

 

[VampireWicked]

Dragon Ball introduced deities in the Saiyan Saga.

I didn't say SUPER introduced Deities, i said it took it to a new level.
A level not just Kaioshin etc, but added Gods Of Destruction, Angels, the possibility of becoming a God Of Destruction.
And so-on.

How did it make you like Gohan?

I went on about it in the thread i made.
GOHAN REVAMP!?.........YAY!

Universal threats in Dragon Ball have been a thing for awhile, Cell's goals were essentially to have fun while destroying the universe, and Boo's goals were pure mindless destruction of the universe, Super has only continued the trend. And? What has Super done to make us care for the other universes? They're meaningless, unexplored, we have nothing to care about them.

I know there's been threats before but as i said to me in comparison to SUPER they don't seem as grand.
PerfectCell, Buu, Frieza, they are all powerful YES, however they weren't portrayed as someone on such a universal level as Beeurs, Whis, Jiren, Toppo, etc etc etc.

That's a thing i don't like about the DragonBall Universe in general.
The way DragonBall Z conveys these solar, galaxy level characters in such a unimpressive humble way that has very little sense of what these characters can really do.
PerfectCell, KidBuu, can destroy a solar system they should be leveling planets like nothing, they don't seem that far beyond leveling the planet they're on.
And that to me isn't as awe-inspiring as what SUPER does.

SUPER it does a better job at giving a better sense of how powerful characters can be but i think it could do alot better.

But, here's the thing. No other universe besides U7 has been explored, they're just there. Super did nothing with this potential, and instead squandered it, these universes won't be explored as Super is ending soon.

I agree SUPER didn't explore them & that's an opportunity wasted but i liked that it did introduce those different universes, & it did something DragonBall Z didn't do & that was pitting heroes vs heroes in such a desperate situation like the tournament of power.

Like when comics have the story arcs where it's just GoodGuys vs GoodGuys & the losers dies.
I like that concept.

I really wished a morality vs survival angle would've explored.
A few tiny times Gohan was struggling with it, & Vegeta seemed to use it as motivation as he wasn't thinking of himself.

Goku & the rest was more screw that, i'm gonna live.

But yeah i like the idea of GoodGuys vs GoodGuys with their very existence on the line.

 

[Pocket-Gog~]

I didn't say SUPER introduced Deities, i said it took it to a new level.
A level not just Kaioshin etc, but added Gods Of Destruction, Angels, the possibility of becoming a God Of Destruction.
And so-on.

"Because To Me SUPER took it to a new level with the inclusion of deities & not just mortals."

You literally said that one of the reasons why you like Super is because of the inclusion of deities. Also, the story did fuck all with the God of Destruction, the angels, becoming one. It's also a massive gargantuan retcon that makes Shin, and Old Kai look like massive fucking idiots for not calling Beerus, especially considering that if Shin died Beerus died too. The GoD's, and angels were thoughtlessly implemented into the canon at best.

I went on about it in the thread i made.
GOHAN REVAMP!?.........YAY!

So, you like Gohan for not being Gohan?

I know there's been threats before but as i said to me in comparison to SUPER they don't seem as grand.
PerfectCell, Buu, Frieza, they are all powerful YES, however they weren't portrayed as someone on such a universal level as Beeurs, Whis, Jiren, Toppo, etc etc etc. That's a thing i don't like about the DragonBall Universe in general.
The way DragonBall Z conveys these solar, galaxy level characters in such a unimpressive humble way that has very little sense of what these characters can really do.
PerfectCell, KidBuu, can destroy a solar system they should be leveling planets like nothing, they don't seem that far beyond leveling the planet they're on.
And that to me isn't as awe-inspiring as what SUPER does. SUPER it does a better job at giving a better sense of how powerful characters can be but i think it could do alot better.

....Super does a fucking abysmal job with conveying how strong these universal busters are, Jiren, Toppo, Dyspo all feel like nothing new. Which is a big problem, the ridiculous power escalation of Dragon Ball reached it's peak, and now nobody feels strong strength wise. It also doesn't help that neither Toppo, Dypso, Jiren, Kefla, Hit, have been in the most inconsistent show under the sun.

Fucking Freeza from Namek Saga has more weight behind his strength.

I agree SUPER didn't explore them & that's an opportunity wasted but i liked that it did introduce those different universes, & it did something DragonBall Z didn't do & that was pitting heroes vs heroes in such a desperate situation like the tournament of power.

Why should Super be praised for an idea which it nothing with? And how the fuck did Super pit good guys against good guys? The entire time, Goku and Vegeta, the entire team of U7 was pit against assholes, Jiren views strength as justice, Toppo ditched his justice, etc. U7 has been portrayed as the good guys the entire time. Super ditched that angle. And with what little it did with it, it did it abysmally.

 

[Keedounan]

To be honest ? No. For the simple reason that Super was, as a whole, was a completely unnecessary.

First of all, the placement of Super is already a huge flaw. The very moment the story was set between Boo arc and EoZ, any attempt at tension was doomed to fail from the start. Every single one character from the main cast will survive would survive well and alive.

Second, Super didn't bring any good concept to the table, and even when it did, they don't bother to explore it at all. The God hierarchy was retconned even more than it was with Kaioshin, the SSJG was ridiculously easy to obtain, the return of Freeza was just nostalgia milking, the rest of the multiverse wasn't explored at all, all of the new characters were either flanderized until they only had one consistent character trait, were carbon copies of existing characters, were incredibly bland or just plain annoying. Even most of the existing characters barely had any development, and those who did suffered character regression (with Krillin being the only exception).

At the end of the day, nostalgia milking is the only way to justify Super's existence.

 

[Captain Cadaver]

....Super does a fucking abysmal job with conveying how strong these universal busters are, Jiren, Toppo, Dyspo all feel like nothing new. Which is a big problem, the ridiculous power escalation of Dragon Ball reached it's peak, and now nobody feels strong strength wise. It also doesn't help that neither Toppo, Dypso, Jiren, Kefla, Hit, have been in the most inconsistent show under the sun.

To be fair, he has a point about Super's presentation of it's Universe busters compared to Z's supposed Solar System busters, considering there's 3-4 Universe level feats compared to Z's 0 Solar System level feats.

Not saying it's in any way consistent, seeing as how we have Freeza bragging about planet busting against Toppo, but it is a fair point that Super at least backs up the increase in destructive scale with something other than words unlike post-Freeza Z.

 

[SSJ2]

Absolutely fucking not.

 

[VampireWicked]

You literally said that one of the reasons why you like Super is because of the inclusion of deities. Also, the story did fuck all with the God of Destruction, the angels, becoming one. It's also a massive gargantuan retcon that makes Shin, and Old Kai look like massive fucking idiots for not calling Beerus, especially considering that if Shin died Beerus died too. The GoD's, and angels were thoughtlessly implemented into the canon at best.

YES The inclusion as in involvement.
Introduction would be adding a new character type & Deities aren't new to the DragonBall Universe.
I said a new level as in SUPER expanded upon the Deities with the inclusion of the Gods Of Destruction, Angels, etc.

2. I disagree.
It's you're opinion & you're welcome to it, i just don't share you're views.

To Me, The Gods Of Destruction expanded upon the Kaiōshin shedding light on their role as Gods Of Creation who maintain the balance of the universe & create life on different worlds.

It would all of the Kaiōshin dying in that particular universe for Beerus to die.
The Gods of Destruction are less vulnerable than the Supreme Kais in that sense, since they can continue to live on, as long as even a single Supreme Kai exists in their universe, whereas the death of a God of Destruction would instantly kill all Supreme Kais, regardless of how numerous.

So, you like Gohan for not being Gohan?

I liked Gohan because in Episode 124 he seemed more of what he should've been in DragonBall Z.

....Super does a fucking abysmal job with conveying how strong these universal busters are, Jiren, Toppo, Dyspo all feel like nothing new. Which is a big problem, the ridiculous power escalation of Dragon Ball reached it's peak, and now nobody feels strong strength wise. It also doesn't help that neither Toppo, Dypso, Jiren, Kefla, Hit, have been in the most inconsistent show under the sun.

Fucking Freeza from Namek Saga has more weight behind his strength.

Well considering Jiren, Toppo, Kefla, Dypso, HIT, etc were involved in the Tournament of Power. I disagree.

SUPER does an excellent job at conveying how powerful these characters are, since Jiren was able to shake the World of Void while suppressed.
The World of Void (無の界 Mu no Kai) is an isolated place outside of the multiverse with literally no time or space. As the name implies, it is a void world with infinite nothingness. The World of Void is the setting of the Tournament of Power, as the fighters can take advantage of the nothingness to use the full extent of their powers.


Again considering it's the Tournament of Power it is absolutely reasonable the strength of the majority of the participants (especially Saiyans) would increase as they are engaging in fight after fight in a 48 minute time period. As opposed to engaging in limit breaking fights takes place possibly months from the last.

Why should Super be praised for an idea which it nothing with? And how the fuck did Super pit good guys against good guys? The entire time, Goku and Vegeta, the entire team of U7 was pit against assholes, Jiren views strength as justice, Toppo ditched his justice, etc. U7 has been portrayed as the good guys the entire time. Super ditched that angle. And with what little it did with it, it did it abysmally.

Are you actually asking why SUPER justifies itself for me or for you ?

 

[Papasmurf]

I honestly don't mind the fact that Super takes place in a blank period in the manga considering the sheer amount of plot shield the main cast has in the manga in the first place. Now all the other flaws in Super, they can suck a cock.

 

[Pocket-Gog~]

YES The inclusion as in involvement.
Introduction would be adding a new character type & Deities aren't new to the DragonBall Universe.
I said a new level as in SUPER expanded upon the Deities with the inclusion of the Gods Of Destruction, Angels, etc.

2. I disagree.
It's you're opinion & you're welcome to it, i just don't share you're views.

To Me, The Gods Of Destruction expanded upon the Kaiōshin shedding light on their role as Gods Of Creation who maintain the balance of the universe & create life on different worlds.

And Super did nothing with this idea, it never explored the ideas of Gods of Destructions, and Gods of Creation, it never even once showed the Gods of Creation actually creating anything, or how they balanced out the GoD's. The introduction of the new deities in Super were shallow, and uninspired, they did nothing with it, never expanded on it, never integrated it into any interesting stories. And it was also a massive fucking retcon which made no sense with the story before it.

It would all of the Kaiōshin dying in that particular universe for Beerus to die.

The Gods of Destruction are less vulnerable than the Supreme Kais in that sense, since they can continue to live on, as long as even a single Supreme Kai exists in their universe, whereas the death of a God of Destruction would instantly kill all Supreme Kais, regardless of how numerous.

Which was a very real possibility in the Majin Boo Saga, and yet not once did Shin even think of calling up Beerus to erase this puny wad of gum.

I liked Gohan because in Episode 124 he seemed more of what he should've been in DragonBall Z.

Ah, a clone of Goku then, not his own individual character.

Well considering Jiren, Toppo, Kefla, Dypso, HIT, etc were involved in the Tournament of Power. I disagree.

SUPER does an excellent job at conveying how powerful these characters are, since Jiren was able to shake the World of Void while suppressed.
The World of Void (無の界 Mu no Kai) is an isolated place outside of the multiverse with literally no time or space. As the name implies, it is a void world with infinite nothingness. The World of Void is the setting of the Tournament of Power, as the fighters can take advantage of the nothingness to use the full extent of their powers.

Jiren shook... The World of Void. A place made of no time and space, literally nothing... Jiren's most impressive feat, is shaking literally nothing.

Again considering it's the Tournament of Power it is absolutely reasonable the strength of the majority of the participants (especially Saiyans) would increase as they are engaging in fight after fight in a 48 minute time period. As opposed to engaging in limit breaking fights takes place possibly months from the last.

So, to you, every fighter getting massively stronger, asspulling power us after power ups is absolutely justifiable? Proper pacing and training is light years better than just randomly getting stronger (and weaker) for every fight.

Are you actually asking why SUPER justifies itself for me or for you ?

No. I'm questioning you on why you like Super because pretty much every reason you've supplied has been shallow.

 

[VampireWicked]

No. I'm questioning you on why you like Super because pretty much every reason you've supplied has been shallow.

Just as i said you're asking me to justify my reasons to you.
I don't answer to you.

If you've already established a choice as being shallow, worthless, meaningless, or wrong because it doesn't fit your definition of what's justifiable as praiseworthy or is totally unacceptable by your standards..........Then Too Bad, Stop Asking.

I mean seriously you're actually arguing over why i like SUPER.
LOL No Really, You're starting post literally asks does it justify itself for the person watching.
In your opinion, Super the newest continuation of Dragon Ball, did it justify it's own existence? FOR YOUdid this continuation of Dragon ball justified it's existence with what it did?


Again If you didn't want a different answer than yours, don't ask.
I have absolutely no problem holding a conversation or discussion over differences but when you're asking why i prefer something then spend time picking it apart arguing & criticising why i like someone, WHY I LIKE SOMETHING. Then you're just wasting my time because i have absolutely no reason to convince you WHY I LIKE SOMETHING.
Nor do i need to seek your approval.