Did the SSJG multiplier really change?

[GreatSaiyaman123]

The biggest argument for that is Base Kefla, but isn’t that because of fusion multiplier being variable/inconsistent? SSJG is still worlds above SSJ3.

 

[Papasmurf]

I like to just use the explanation that they absorbed part of SSJG's power into base and lower SSJ forms since it actually happened in the anime and the manga was so rushed I'm convinced Toyotaro just didn't cover that line. If SSJG was still a big enough multiplier that it would dwarf the difference between the initial Beerus that two-shotted SSJ3 Galu with love taps and said SSJ3 Galu himself, I'd think Caulifla would've been oneshotted by a love tap and Ikai Broly having greater power than SSJG would make no sense when Ikari would obviously be around a 10x multiplier from base and base Broly ended up around SSJ level prior to activating Ikari.

Granted it's Super we're talking about so who knows if they'll retcon it or say God Ki integration never happened but whatever

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

I’m sure the multiplier is the same in the manga since Base Goku does nothing he couldn’t do in Z. Toyotaro didn’t just skip that scene, the fight ends without Goku losing the form.

Good catch on Caulifla not being one shot by Goku. Even if Kale was protecting her, Goku should’ve been able to pick them apart and finish Caulifla. Broly was probably way above SSJ though. No way God is just 10x SSJ1

I’d say the ritual and Goku’s first contact with God Ki made SSJG more impressive. He then absorbs SSJG’s power, but only keeps some of it. Like the movie, but more complicated.

Goku (Pre SSJG): 1
~ Ritual SSJG: 1,000,000
~ Base (End of fight): 2,000,000 (When he punches Beerus’ ball)

Goku (Post fight): 2,000
~ Solo SSJG: 2,000,000

 

[Papasmurf]

Broly's power increased from fighting Goku but I'm not so sure it increased beyond when he fought SSJ/God Vegeta, other than from activating Ikari. He seemed to already show the signs of Ikari when SSJ Vegeta punched him. But the Broly fight is just inconsistent in general, since base Goku not being one-shotted by Ikari Broly makes no sense, other than if Broly was just fucking around to trigger Goku's SSJG.

Blue also seems far less than the massive multiplier from the BoG arc's SSJG later in the manga, I think either Goku absorbed SSJG's God Ki into himself or Whis' training caused his lower forms to catch up, similar to Goku's base and SSJ getting much stronger after unlocking SSJ4 in GT.

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

I think Base Broly is at least > SSJ2 for Vegeta to have skipped straight to God. I think SSJG might not have been at FP too since even Goku can fight a bit and Broly powers up before fighting Goku.

Whenever Goku goes through his forms in the manga, nobody bats an eye at SSJ1-3 but SSJG has even the gods shitting themselves. It’s as impressive as ever.

 

[Dagon]

I think not only the Kefla fight proves it but the Broly movie as well. Kale and Caulifla's power was increased "tens of times" and surpassed SSJG Goku as base Kefla. Broly uses Oozaru power, which should be 10x base, and tanks SSJG Vegeta who had just said "this is no time to be playing around" as Broly was endangering the earth.

Some people rationalize that "tens of times" includes any multiple of ten even into infinity but really that's just a cop-put as that's not how language works.

People will also rationalize that Vegeta was holding back against Broly but that contradicts Vegeta literally saying it's no time to play around.

Anyone who denies the evidence is just biased.

 

[Papasmurf]

I think Base Broly is at least > SSJ2 for Vegeta to have skipped straight to God. I think SSJG might not have been at FP too since even Goku can fight a bit and Broly powers up before fighting Goku.

Whenever Goku goes through his forms in the manga, nobody bats an eye at SSJ1-3 but SSJG has even the gods shitting themselves. It’s as impressive as ever.

Honestly not even sure if Toriyama even remembers SSJ2 and 3 at this point considering he forgot the main title of the series was Dragon Ball Super not too long after he finished writing Broly... Plus SSJ2 and 3 stopped appearing in the manga too after Moro.

 

[Natasha Romanoff]

Broly in Base wasn't much ahead of Vegeta in SSJ yet he made him push directly to SSJG, but in this we can at least give the benefit of the doubt as characters goes from Base, SSJ, SSJG and Blue. However, a x10 increase was enough to destroy the SSJGs, so the multiplier clearly got lowered as in BoG, SSJG was stronger than fusions.

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

I think not only the Kefla fight proves it but the Broly movie as well. Kale and Caulifla's power was increased "tens of times" and surpassed SSJG Goku as base Kefla. Broly uses Oozaru power, which should be 10x base, and tanks SSJG Vegeta who had just said "this is no time to be playing around" as Broly was endangering the earth.

Some people rationalize that "tens of times" includes any multiple of ten even into infinity but really that's just a cop-put as that's not how language works.

People will also rationalize that Vegeta was holding back against Broly but that contradicts Vegeta literally saying it's no time to play around.

Anyone who denies the evidence is just biased.

I don’t see how the “tens of times stronger” factors into this. Kale was already strong enough to keep up with Goku. She wasn’t tens of times weaker than him.

Vegeta also asks if Goku brought any senzus. He was definitely going all out. I think people only argue Vegeta was holding back to rationalize Goku’s feats.

 

[Dagon]

I don’t see how the “tens of times stronger” factors into this. Kale was already strong enough to keep up with Goku. She wasn’t tens of times weaker than him.

What I mean is by Kale and Caulifla's power being combined and "only" multiplied by tens of times Kefla was able to greatly surpass SSJG Goku in base in the anime. That should indicate a SSJG multiplier less than Kefla's gap over the individual girls.

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

What I mean is by Kale and Caulifla's power being combined and "only" multiplied by tens of times Kefla was able to greatly surpass SSJG Goku in base in the anime. That should indicate a SSJG multiplier less than Kefla's gap over the individual girls.

What’s wrong with something like this?

SSJ3 Goku: 1

SSJ2 Kale: 500,000

SSJG Goku: 1,000,000

Base Kefla: 10,000,000

 

[Animelover5487]

Weren't Kale and Caulifia impressed by the power of Goku's SSJ3, and used it at as a goalpost?

 

[Goku9001]

Weren't Kale and Caulifia impressed by the power of Goku's SSJ3, and used it at as a goalpost?

This was before Kale unleashed her FPSSJ Broly-esque form.

 

[Dagon]

What’s wrong with something like this?

SSJ3 Goku: 1

SSJ2 Kale: 500,000

SSJG Goku: 1,000,000

Base Kefla: 10,000,000

I suppose it's close enough. I wasn't trying to say base Kefla was tens of times SSJG Goku.