Do you agree with...

[Loby]

With the Daizenshuu battle powers of the Z fighters in the fight vs Nappa and Vegeta?

Chaotzu: 610
Yajirobe:970
Yamcha: 1,480
Krillin: 1,770
Tenshinhan: 1,830
Piccolo: 3,500

I only disagree with Piccolo. He is 2,500 imo. I would also switch between Chaotzu and Yajirobe.

 

[Void]

Piccolo being 2,500 works. I don't think he's above the 2,800 number read for angry Gohan's Masenko.

 

[Boo Brand Milk]

I don't see how a same mind puts Nappa above a same 4000 considering how bad Goku rocked him and an under 4000 Gohan could hurt him.

Spare me the idioms.

But i do agree Piccolo at 2500 can work, he didn't do much.

 

[Captain Cadaver]

Other than Piccolo's level being above Gohan's Masenko despite the whole Nappa fight implying the opposite (not to mention the heavy implications of Chaozu's self destruction and Tenshinhan's Kikoho being above Piccolo), but the levels for the other characters don't really have anything contradicting them.

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

Other than Piccolo's power level for reasons others have pointed out already, I disagree with Yamcha's level, and potentially Kuririn and Tenshinhan's. Yamcha is shown going toe to toe with a Saibamen (Stated BP of 1,200), and neither of the human duo is expressed to be above him.

I guess the only ones that I agree are Yajirobe and Chaozu. I think these would be more appropiate levels:

Yamcha: 1,200
Kuririn: 1,440
Tenshinhan: 1,500
Piccolo: 2,000
Gohan: 2,400-2,500
~ Masenko: 2,800

 

[Captain Cadaver]

Other than Piccolo's power level for reasons others have pointed out already, I disagree with Yamcha's level, and potentially Kuririn and Tenshinhan's. Yamcha is shown going toe to toe with a Saibamen (Stated BP of 1,200), and neither of the human duo is expressed to be above him.

Yamcha also stated after beating the Saibaiman down with the Kamehameha that he could deal with the other 4 all at once, so it's clear it wasn't as difficult as he made it seem.

Kuririn was read as being at 1.5k on Namek whilst weighted and wasn't suggested to have made much gains on the ship, so his Daiz level works well via-scaling with the type of boost Goku and Piccolo had from taking off their weights.

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

Yamcha also stated after beating the Saibaiman down with the Kamehameha that he could deal with the other 4 all at once, so it's clear it wasn't as difficult as he made it seem.

He then proceeded to be blown by a single one.

Kuririn was read as being at 1.5k on Namek whilst weighted and wasn't suggested to have made much gains on the ship, so his Daiz level works well via-scaling with the type of boost Goku and Piccolo had from taking off their weights.

Oh yeah, I forgot that. But I'm not sure how to work it out...Tenshinhan clearly puts Piccolo on a league of his own when he sees his power, so it seems unlikely Tenshinhan and Kuririn would be closer to Piccolo than they are to Yamcha.

 

[Captain Cadaver]

He then proceeded to be blown by a single one.

The same kind of attack that brought Chaozu from the jabroni of the group to having everyone think he may have killed Nappa when he mimicked it.

Oh yeah, I forgot that. But I'm not sure how to work it out...Tenshinhan clearly puts Piccolo on a league of his own when he sees his power, so it seems unlikely Tenshinhan and Kuririn would be closer to Piccolo than they are to Yamcha.

329 Piccolo was considered a level above the humans though, so I'd say it's yet another case of gaps being relativistic depending on the plot, or you could simply just place Piccolo higher than 2k.

 

[Loby]

Well if Piccolo is 2,500, then Tenshinhan is closer to Yamcha (1,480)

 

[SSJ2]

Yamcha is factually above the Saibaman. I’d personally even have him outside of rivalling range based on what was shown. Yamcha was more or less dominating the fight..

 

[withheldforprivacy]

Chaotzu: 400
Yajirobe: 350
Yamcha: 1.250
Krillin: 1.400
Tenshinhan: 1.500
Piccolo: 2.000

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

He then proceeded to be blown by a single one.

The same kind of attack that brought Chaozu from the jabroni of the group to having everyone think he may have killed Nappa when he mimicked it.

Oh yeah, I forgot that. But I'm not sure how to work it out...Tenshinhan clearly puts Piccolo on a league of his own when he sees his power, so it seems unlikely Tenshinhan and Kuririn would be closer to Piccolo than they are to Yamcha.

329 Piccolo was considered a level above the humans though, so I'd say it's yet another case of gaps being relativistic depending on the plot, or you could simply just place Piccolo higher than 2k.

Point being that he still failed to kill a single one despite catching it off guard with a Kamehameha, so taking on 4 is a stretch of his.

I don’t think suppressed Piccolo is ever expressed to be out of their league, only FP 408 Piccolo is.

Yamcha is factually above the Saibaman. I’d personally even have him outside of rivalling range based on what was shown. Yamcha was more or less dominating the fight..

Where’s the blatant advantage? Is it because the Saibamen tried to back off?

 

[Captain Cadaver]

Point being that he still failed to kill a single one despite catching it off guard with a Kamehameha, so taking on 4 is a stretch of his.

Where’s the blatant advantage? Is it because the Saibamen tried to back off?

The Kamehameha was barely charged at all, was enough to almost KO the Saibaiman and was still enough for it to know a kamikaze was the only option.

He wouldn't have been so confident if he had as much difficulty as you're implying.

The panel just before he clearly outspeeds the Saibaiman (practically blitzing it, for that matter), he had a clear smirk of confidence whilst baiting it. It's pretty clear the Saibaiman was no challenge to Yamcha beyond its self-destruction.

I don’t think suppressed Piccolo is ever expressed to be out of their league, only FP 408 Piccolo is.

The way Kuririn talks about how he and Roshi would get killed by Piccolo in reference to his 329 reading, it's made apparent that was the benchmark. If he thought 250 Ten and 177 Yamcha would change anything, he'd bother bringing it up, and it's worth noting Kuririn wouldn't have even been aware Piccolo could get any stronger due to not knowing about his weighted clothing.

 

[SSJ2]

@gsm http://www.dbzeta.net/viewtopic.php?p=366783#p366783

 

[Let's Go Fearless!]

I agree that Piccolo should be less than Gohan's Masenkoha since the latter was considered to be more impressive or dangerous than anything Piccolo displayed in the right iirc.

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

The Kamehameha was barely charged at all, was enough to almost KO the Saibaiman and was still enough for it to know a kamikaze was the only option.

Short charging time didn't stop Goku from multiplying his power. And given how the Saibaman was unable to get the upperhand against Yamcha, and taking a Kamehameha to the face certainly doesn't help

He wouldn't have been so confident if he had as much difficulty as you're implying.

Can't he just be full of shit? He couldn't kill a single one even after catching it with it's guard wide open.

The panel just before he clearly outspeeds the Saibaiman (practically blitzing it, for that matter), he had a clear smirk of confidence whilst baiting it. It's pretty clear the Saibaiman was no challenge to Yamcha beyond its self-destruction.

Which could have been a Zangouken/Afterimage, technique used back in early DB to speedblitz characters in your level before Ki sensing became a thing.

The way Kuririn talks about how he and Roshi would get killed by Piccolo in reference to his 329 reading, it's made apparent that was the benchmark. If he thought 250 Ten and 177 Yamcha would change anything, he'd bother bringing it up, and it's worth noting Kuririn wouldn't have even been aware Piccolo could get any stronger due to not knowing about his weighted clothing.

Fair enough, I guess. What do you think of these, CC?

Yamcha: 1,250
Kuririn: 1,562.5
Tenshinhan: 1,600
Piccolo: 2,100

@gsm http://www.dbzeta.net/viewtopic.php?p=366783#p366783

I'm not seeing what implies Yamcha is actually above, let alone being out of rivaling range. We never see Yamcha getting the upperhand for you to say the Saibaman was overwhelmed, he just jumped to try to get an advantage. The Zangouken is a technique used in DB to blitz even rivals (see Goku vs Jackie Chun), so it doesn't really imply superiority. "Way outside of rivalling range" would be Yamcha overwhelming the Saibaman hand to hand and ripping him in two with the Kamehameha.

 

[Captain Cadaver]

Short charging time didn't stop Goku from multiplying his power. And given how the Saibaman was unable to get the upperhand against Yamcha, and taking a Kamehameha to the face certainly doesn't help

Yet Yamcha never implied it was a fully charged one. It was little different from the one Goku used on Nappa, which through character statements, was suggested to be barely charged at all.

Can't he just be full of shit? He couldn't kill a single one even after catching it with it's guard wide open.

He didn't really have a reason to if he really found it difficult. It's not as if he had to take them all on when he could've simply gone back to the sidelines if he knew any more would be getting in over his head.

I'm pretty sure one of the more serious fighters such as Piccolo would've called Yamcha out if it was a bluff, seeing as how putting one of their allies at risk without necessity wouldn't be a smart move.

Which could have been a Zangouken/Afterimage, technique used back in early DB to speedblitz characters in your level before Ki sensing became a thing.

The Zanzoken is consistently shown to create an afterimage of the user, whilst Yamcha's attack didn't.

Fair enough, I guess. What do you think of these, CC?

Yamcha: 1,250
Kuririn: 1,562.5
Tenshinhan: 1,600
Piccolo: 2,100

For reasons I've already mentioned should be quite large all things considered. Weighted Kuririn was also stated to be at 1.5k on Namek and wasn't suggested to have made big gains since the Saiyan Arc, so having his full power only marginally above that at this time is a massive stretch.

 

[SSJ2]

I’m not sure we are viewing the same fight..

Yamcha rushes in initially and Saibaman is surprised by his speed. If you follow the red impact marks in the next panel it shows Yamcha pushing the Saibaman back with his barrage of punches. Saibaman jumps away to escape, you can see sweat dripping off him to show worry. Yamcha follows him to the top of the rock, Saibaman tries to lunge at Yamcha who gets behind Saibaman through sheer speed. As CC has said that is not the afterimage technique. With an uncharged KHH Yamcha ends the fight. That seems like a pretty clear advantage to me.

What did Saibaman actually achieve during this fight? He barely held Yamcha off during the initial barrage, then got defeated by an uncharged ki blast. The fight gave Yamcha enough confidence to take on all of the Saibaman. The gap is pretty large, but not large enough that Yamcha can physically one shot.

Way outside of rivalling range" would be Yamcha overwhelming the Saibaman hand to hand and ripping him in two with the Kamehameha.

Except this is literally what happened.

 

[Let's Go Fearless!]

I just read the fight again and the matched wasn't even close to rivalling range. Yamcha absolutely destroyed that Saibaman and that was really the point of that fight on how the Z fighters improved and surpass Raditz level.

 

[ahill1]

I'd have Yamcha at 1,320 or so.